5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

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M19 MADMAL
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by M19 MADMAL » 04 Sep 2011 21:32

Hi Harpoon,

VERY NICE! 8-)

I have never seen the clips stacked more than 2 high in the side racks. Also you will note that in most cases (inc. the German plan) that the racks are installed upside down as the flat supporting plate for the cross bars is above the cross bars :o The early 633 at Stp. Corbiere had the racks fitted the correct way round as they are attached to the original securing points on the wall. It looks like the racks were turned upside down to allow the top rack to take a extra, 2nd row of mortar clips as can be seen in the 2 photos below.

BTW there were 10 rollers :milwink:

Regards,
Malcolm :milsmile:
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"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

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Harpoon
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Harpoon » 04 Sep 2011 22:07

Thanks, I will make the necessary corrections. I saw the supports were on the wrong side on several photos so I thought I put them on the wrong side also. I did not think about more space on the top shelf as you could clearly put 3 frames on top in each shelf.

mkappius
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by mkappius » 07 Sep 2011 19:09

Hello Harpoon,

You make a fantastic work.

I have same details from the "Kuppel" and the "Sockel" for You.

The "Kuppel" has 12 Stabilisators (see my picture) but only 8 holes for conection
to the "Sockel".

The Entrance is not in the middle of the Sockel.

The picture of the 424P01 is a drawing of one of my next projects.

At the moment I build on a 34P8.

Michael
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Harpoon
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Harpoon » 07 Sep 2011 21:58

Thanks for the input mkappius.

I’ve got 12 stabilators on sockelring and dome but 10 bolts. I will adjust them according to your drawing. Are the anchoring bolts on the same spot on the sockelring? (Except those two on the entrance)

Are you 100% sure that the entrance is off center and 110cm wide? Seems too be straight in center on photos and drawings. The door opening from ammunition room seems also to be in the middle of the wall with the tunnel for axel and electrics in the middle.

The bit sticking outside the concrete ring on the right could indicate something, maybe a “tad” wider on the right side. The frame on the 434P01 is about 6cm wider on the side with the hinges.

Cheers
/Anders
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Harpoon
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Harpoon » 08 Sep 2011 00:41

Best I have on the 34P8
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mkappius
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by mkappius » 08 Sep 2011 09:26

Hello Harpoon,

thanks for the fotos.

Your first picture is the best picture, to show the place of the entrance.
And when you see on the drawing of the 34P8 from the "Panzeratlas",
the entrance (110 cm wide) is also off center.

I did not know, if the walls of the entrance (in the concret ring of the 424P01) are paralell
or if they have an angle ?

The holes for the anchoring bolts are not at the same spot than the conection holes to the turret.
At this moment, I did not know the exact positions. The 424P01 is one of my next projects.

I think, the bit sticking outside the concrete ring on the right is a leftover from the casting.
There must be 4 pieces. It could be helpfull for lifting the ring.

The 34P8 I build on is also 3D, but not digital, its in Plastik.
I think, next week I could show a first picture from the inside.

Michael
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Harpoon
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Harpoon » 08 Sep 2011 14:28

The offset cutout in the sockelring has puzzled me. If the shaft channel is in the middle of the door opening it’s not possible to offset the opening approximately 20 cm to the right. After browsing through my 633 photos I found this one that saved my day. They seem to ignore the offset on 633’s!!! :D Photo is from Denmark with dome part removed.

Cheers
/Anders
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M19 MADMAL
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by M19 MADMAL » 08 Sep 2011 15:29

And another from bunkersite.com

I believe that the entrance is off-set in this way due to the way it was fitted in the B-werk bunkers???

Regards,
Malcolm :milwink:
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"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

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Harpoon
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Harpoon » 11 Sep 2011 23:04

The work is steadily going forward. After receiving drawings from Malcom and inputs on the armor part from by mkappius many parts had to be redesigned overall dimensions was more or less ok. Sadly not all parts add up when assembled this especially applies to elevation mechanism and periscope. This could relate to scaling of drawings and also errors in drawings. Details about elevation and traverse mechanism are also not that detailed on the drawings. Also found some errors in the bunker after correcting the offset entry cutout on the armored parts. Also put in an SR9 periscope as indicated on drawings and found in at least one of the 633’s in Norway.
Work remaining is foot pedals for traverse locking and firing, seats and linkage for firing and certainly something missed. Hope to get this model within two parts (10 + 10mb) so some bunker bits may have to be excluded to accomplish this.
Thanks to Malcom and mkappius for all help so far.

/Anders
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Harpoon
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Harpoon » 11 Sep 2011 23:08

Continued
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Kalinor
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Kalinor » 12 Sep 2011 10:36

i think i can some up these images with one single word.....SWEEEEEEEEEEEEET
Jon from Lincolnshire

Wishes he lived in a country that has real bunkers

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Harpoon
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Harpoon » 16 Sep 2011 14:18

The work is slowly progressing. And only minor adjustment has to be made and some more detailing of weapon mechanism. Finally solved the puzzle of the geometry around drive shaft when elevation changes. This has been bothering me for some time. The solution works nice but looks funny during movement as different parts move at different speed. Some more pictures.
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Mark89
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Mark89 » 16 Sep 2011 18:48

Fascinating. So am I correct if I say that the propulsion for the gun when elevated is by means of a revolving and telescopic shaft on the side of the weapon?
And can you describe to me in detail how the barrel was lifted and lowered over the round? Was this by means of the black cam-shaft? And how was the round ignited? Seeing that these are normal mortar-rounds which normally go of by falling onto a firing pin at the bottom of the mortar pipe, how was this being done? And why did they place the active end of the propulsion mechanism all the way on the other side of the preparationroom?
Also, thumbs up on the brilliant model. Long time sketchup and bunker fan, so to see them both combined...

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Harpoon
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Harpoon » 16 Sep 2011 20:59

Mark89 wrote:Fascinating. So am I correct if I say that the propulsion for the gun when elevated is by means of a revolving and telescopic shaft on the side of the weapon?
Yes, same propulsion in any elevation. See the little animation

And can you describe to me in detail how the barrel was lifted and lowered over the round? Was this by means of the black cam-shaft? And how was the round ignited? Seeing that these are normal mortar-rounds which normally go of by falling onto a firing pin at the bottom of the mortar pipe, how was this being done?
When the weapon was armed and the drive shaft was running. The following cycle occurred when right pedal was pressed. On new round was fed from the right. Barrel lowered over it and moved the two holding frames down and locked the barrel. Firing pin firing drive charge. Barrel unlock and move up ready for new round. I have made a photo where the crankshaft is visible by removing some parts.

And why did they place the active end of the propulsion mechanism all the way on the other side of the preparationroom?
Also, thumbs up on the brilliant model. Long time sketchup and bunker fan, so to see them both combined...
It seems that none of the M19 in regelbau 633 had electric engine mounted on the weapon as seen on most periodic photos. Why, it seems no one knows, maybe not a reliable solution. The version with electric motor attached manual cranks on both sides on the lower gear. This was probably not a favourable position so it was moved to the solution seen. Just a guess.
/Anders
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Mark89
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Mark89 » 16 Sep 2011 21:49

@ Harpoon: brilliant. I finally grasp this weapon. Hardly dare ask but can you also make a gif of the firing sequence? Keep up the good work.

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