Batterie de Maisy Normandie

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
dando
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Post by dando » 24 Feb 2007 16:32

Dear Bunker 14
Firstly Maisy is not a city - its a tiny village. The documents written by Kistoski states where the batteries of his unit were located and they are across the Maisy Battery site and towards Gefosse.
Today I found a copy of a German ordance book which clearly states that 100mm is used when German ammunition was used to replace foreign made ammunition. I cannot upload the scan but i will copy out the exact translation "from German official ordnance manuals" which states that 100mm is often used as a substitute description for 105mm. I will quote the page number and the author etc. Just to finally put that to rest. Also the shell cases were fired ones and would not therefore be collected for storage and I found a number of them in different places. So they were not gathered for collection nor were they used by the French after the war. I know the site was not re-used by the French after the war.
The map is interesting but not complete. The barbed wire across the road is incorrect, No flak guns on the site and no hospital. A number of other guns and bunkers in odd places and there was NO trench going across the road because the Rangers evacuated their wounded along this road in half-tracks on the 9th of June. The aerial photographs confirm this as well.
Etienne - sorry you have used a translation software - I dont understand anything you said.
Ben - please give me the co-ordinates of the guns because I cannot see them on the photographs. All other guns are clearly visible as are cars and people walking down roads. Your guns I cannot see !
I would also love to visit Ouistreham but until someone digs it up its a little difficult. But I agree it is the same as Maisy Le Perruques. However have you taken into account the buildings at the sea which were the rangefinding post and forward defence of Maisy? Many buildings.
Also what about WN85 ? What can you tell me about that please as you are the expert ?
The photograph of the old man IS NOT TAKEN AT MAISY. Visit the site and compare the photograph with the one similar platform and you will see it is NOT MAISY. I cannot keep saying this - visit and you will see that.
I will explain it one last time....
There is only one pit at Maisy which has a small wall around it like the one shown in the photograph (the other pits are all different). This photograph was clearly taken after the war wherever it is. This wall is complete and undamaged.
The only piece of wall like that which is not damaged at Maisy has a small building right behind it. In this photograph there is NO small building visible. It is not the same place.
All the other pits are completely different at Maisy with NO small wall around the edges as shown in this photograph. Now stop being silly and arguing something which is plainly not correct. VISIT THE SITE WITH YOUR PHOTOGRAPH and you will see for yourself. I cant be any more specific than that. YOU AND THE BOOK IT CAME FROM ARE INCORRECT!
As for the German documents... I agree they are interesting but do you have one which shows the hospital ? There is one. Also there are other things which are not shown. The Radar tower for example, 2 Flak guns ?. When someone shows me a specification which matches the things I have found I will be interested.
So you now have an answer to the 100mm guns argument. They were 105mm German. As stated by everyone who is still alive who has seen them. And my postwar photographs of them pulled from the casements into the field.
The picture of the pit IS NOT MAISY. so find another site for it to be.
The documents so far shown to me are not correct for the specification. In respect of guns, bunkers and allocation of officers and men.
You base alot of your arguments on what is written down in front of you - not what is physically there.
I am doing the opposite - I find something and examine its use. However, I do agree there is middle ground... perhaps the Germans recorded their initial intentions for the site and then upgraded it? Who knows. I base my arguments on what I can see - not what is written down 63+ years ago.
The G3 reports are too numerous to be that incorrect and the RAF wouldnt be boming a site that was not firing on the 7th, 8th and 9th. You already have the Rangers comments about the site being fully operational on the 9th. Also the Rangers report that the shells were coming from Maisy - along with the testimonies of locals in recorded histories in books published some ten years ago - which I have and agree with the G3 reports for both USS Ancon and USS Chase - (command ships both anchored off Omaha Beach - not the sector).
To the person who could see the 4 pits before. Dont tell lies. Only 2 were visible I dug up the other two from under 1+ metre of soil. Before I started digging they were NOT visible. I have the photographs of the before and after digging so thats not a lie that will stand sorry.
Once we open on the 3rd of April I will leave a photograph album at the gate for people to see what it was like before. So please stick to the facts and dont invent things - it just discredits your other arguments.

Please continue - I am enjoying this...

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bunker14
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Post by bunker14 » 24 Feb 2007 18:29

yes Maisy is a village (great...)

the site was just used by french enginer some month to stock munition.
dando wrote: However have you taken into account the buildings at the sea which were the rangefinding post and forward defence of Maisy? Many buildings.
Also what about WN85 ? What can you tell me about that please as you are the expert ?
you talking about Wn.81, 82,86,88.....
yes i Know their postitions
you can find a Vf 6a at Wn.88 used by maisy batterys.
and their Wn wasn't biger, there only VF and SK bunkers
but i'ts other Strong points used to deffence beach

For Wn.85 it's I./914 GR HQ put in "Château de Géfosse" there is also a junction of telephone cables .

5./1352 was put at gefosse ferme du Hommet"st felix" and other north of cardonville and chefdeville.


I have visited the site just befor works and compared
i'm shur for the picture with old man the original legende of this picture was " batterie de Maisy""on the picture we can see a 155 SHF 414 (f)

the only battery with 155 SHF 414 (f) in concret Pit in the Maisy sector is 9/1716 batterie Wn.83 Maisy II (your battery)...

other with 155 SHF 414 (f) was Digosville and le Mesni du Val with R669 (near cherbourg) and nothing compared with the Picture...

wy you refused this picture wasn't taken at Maisy?? becaus we can see a small gun?? you prefer think there's guns more biger but that wasn't the case...

so i can said like you ""Now stop being silly and arguing something which is plainly not correct. """

we can see on picture just a small part of the wall . we need more to compart it today.....

you accept only the information which you like there!!! and you refused the other which displeases to you (even if they are true) !!!

you talking about hospital!!! wath sort??.. R118b??? i have a big doubt on this Hospital buried!!!

are you sure that Civilian can made diference between 100 mm and 105 mm!!!!!!!
be serious!!!!

the german document were correct with bunker type and guns!!!!

you based your argument with a picture and 60 years old testimony !!! you need to find more it is necessary to pay attention with testimony, with time it can contain error

i have made research with german , French, and english document and visited Bunkers!!!!! (made the same thing,, you have to said less to say less silly thing)

And you have to visite other position of atlantik wall!! that can be great for you!!!!!!! because wen your said ""The complex is believed to be the most important of German defences constructed during the second world war.""
http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/ ... 25,00.html
i thin'k you don't have visited much position of AW

Rangers histoiry does not interest me !!

i have located the four pits with picture taken in Summer and show the mark of the 4 pits (technique used for found bury bunker)

you can open 1 er april because somme time i think you said jokes with your 12 X 88 MM Flak , radar.........

according to you wath sort of gun was put at Wn.83 and Wn.84?

Please continue you to - your story about the "big maisy"" enjoying my much!!!!! (there is not only me!!!)

dando
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Post by dando » 24 Feb 2007 20:29

Firstly I didnt write anything in the Guardian or ANY other newspaper worldwide which includes your French ones. So dont quote me as it will not be what I said. Make a sensible argument against what I do say not what others print.

The Rangers history should interest you because they were there - remember all of what you are repeating to me was written by someone who was writing it in WWII.

WN85 is not a Chateau - go and look at it. I live very close to it. I think you mistake the Chateau of Gefosse.

I have not disputed the type of guns at Maisy I have only ever debated it - perhaps 155 French or others I dont know because I only have fuses. The testimonies of Rangers who say 155mm French I believe. I personally think they are 155mm Schneider guns but I have German and French fuses. If the guns were mixed French and German then the range of Omaha Beach for example becomes very practical - thats before you take into account the German archives which say there was a Russian Howitzer as well. Afterall who else what defending that coast from a fixed battery in this area?
I am not interested in the picture having a Schneider 155mm or anything else its irrelevant to the particular argument we were having. The picture is not MAISY today or then. Why would I keep saying it if someone could come along and easily disprove it? No more on that. Ask Marc Laurenceau I stood with him on the site with that photograph and also John you did the same. Perhaps one of them you will believe. Stand on the pit with the photograph in your hand and tell me where the building has gone on the old photograph - the building is there now!
The hospital is a big building full of syringes, bottles, masks, tins, buttons, needles, tins, waterbottles and other medical equipment. I wont even answer that any furthert.
Its a bit like me saying I dont like your bathroom colour when I have never seen your house ?!
I am sure you used "bunker techniques" to find the pits. I used a 30 tonne digger I found it quicker.
The artillery shell numbering is EXACTLY CORRECT. UK ordnance expert John Carlin showed me the German Ordnance used during WWII book yesterday and it was on many pages with 100mm being a German marking for 105mm captured ammunition - it does have a full explanation of it.
When he sends me the scan I will print the exact wording. Although I am sure there are plenty of other ordnance people who can say their piece. I think the author was Hogg but I will print it exactly later.
It appears to me that despite what you are told you will only believe what you see on the paper in front of you. It is not me that is saying the guns were 105mm its the evidence I found, the veterans, the photographs and the German Ordnance books.
Its great for a debate but a little tiresome.
You dont know about the hospital, the variations in the pits and their walls, the still buried building, the location of WN85 and the position of AA guns etc.
But you can answer me one question - you say "I have visited the site just before works and compared"..... so you visited the site before the works OK?
The pit you say is Maisy in the photograph and is the same as on the site - it was the last one I dug up in January 2006 and it was COMPLETELY buried how did you see the little wall before that ?
Even I didnt know how much of the pit remained until it was uncovered so - why tell lies - your arguments are interesting and worth an answer but not the lies.
Stick to the truth please.
...Where did this come from also ? "the site was just used by french enginer some month to stock munition." how on earth could you know that - please tell me where it says that ?
Here is a fact for you. The German prisoners were clearing the mines and ordnance from Maisy for 2 and a half years after the war before it was safe to go back there. It then returned to the farmers. I would love to hear your explanation of why the French would suddenly store used ammunition there.
The radar is shown on period aerial photographs, post war photographs and on the British and US invasion maps - from D-day !
Cant you find that one as well in your papers?
Considering you live in Normandy you have a pretty negative list of things to say about Maisy. Even I get bored of arguing with someone who dosent have all the information to have an informed debate.
You too are causing much amusement.
Have fun.

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bunker14
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Post by bunker14 » 24 Feb 2007 21:55

Wn.85 is a "chateau"
this is a stron point who include the castle in the sector you must look at German maps!!!!!it is well the castle of gefosse

German archive talking about a tcheque gun

you don' interesed by the picture.. great for an """historian""" !!
you thin'k it's not Maisy well it's your problem and I dont care
but me i'm shur that's all!!!

but I am shur, one day you go remark that it is well Maisy !!


I visited much of positions on AW I think having evil has to transport has 30 ton digger for each Wn... so


with time I learn to pay attention to testimonys
I believe document , picture and wath i can see when i visited bunkers

i Know the Wn85 position
flak position , observation post, enginer emplacement, transmition cable and post emplacement .......; in this sector


but it's right no idear about this Hospital .. and you ?? you d'ont have visited this hospital !!!do you have find it?? no!!

maybe it's the more biger build by german during the WWII??? .....

For the pit's i have compar after (and not befor) the Work's.

befor work's i have just located Pits and made plan about bunker
i have located Four Pits that all and i'm not alone!!!!

http://www.geoportail.fr look the site on this link you can see circle for the 4 pit's....

you said """"tick to the truth please."""" keep that for you!!!! i think it's better
dando wrote:...Where did this come from also ? "the site was just used by french enginer some month to stock munition." how on earth could you know that - please tell me where it says that ?.
because i have see that in french archive and my great father work's at maisy battery like enginer (deminor) i have found paper about that
after war many Strong point where used like ammunition dumps (the more biger in Calvados was STP05)

Form the radar it's a Wurzburg, a Freya?? sory but on GSGS maps (invasion) there's no radar at Maisy batterys!!!!

you are limited and you won't anything to know then remained with your phantasm of larger battery of the AW!!!
but when I reads you I see that you have much to learn!!
and yes I having fun when i read your storys

and yes It's a tiresome debate because nothing move

dando
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Post by dando » 26 Feb 2007 22:06

Interesting but boring going over the same things again and again.

The hospital IS the large building which is NOW uncovered. I did actually find it - I dug it up and you and anyone else can come and look at it - not on your plans is it?

The radar tower information I will show you if you visit.

Lets be honest... all the things you say that I have said are the things that you have read in newspapers and magazines and are not written by me - its a great way to argue your point and look good to all your friends, but a pointless argument for me. I have no intention of continually debating what a journalist has written and then get your opinion of it. You are frankly not worth the effort of the reply if you cannot formulate your own debate.

You did not answer why the French would stockpile USED ammunition cases for a calibre of gun that you say wasnt at the site - thats just ridiculous.

I also see you have dropped the ammunition calibre debate now thats been disproved. It interesting to wonder how many people believe what is said in these debates if nobody actually says the poster is wrong? The Rangers picture is a classic example of that.

These forums appear to be a place where someone - you- for example, can make a series of claims, accusations or "quotes" with no substance and then attribute them to someone else (in this case me) who has to defend them. Interesting for the reader but a waste of time and effort.

So... once more for the record....I have NEVER ANYWHERE said that its the biggest site on the Atlantic Wall. The closest thing I have said is that the site is "one of the biggest in the invasion area". Now you can quote me on that because I said it.

I also have never called myself a "historian" thats not a label you would put on yourself - your repeating someone else's words again! You must do alot of reading?

You live in Normandy so come and visit me when we open - perhaps I might show you a few things your "great Father" didnt see.

End of the debate for me but fun while it lasted - thanks to people for the sensible posts and for the support.

Gary

PS..... I hate the colour of your bathroom and its NOT the largest bathroom in Normandy - I have papers from my great grandmother which say there is a bigger one in Bayeux !........... see what I mean ?

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bunker14
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Post by bunker14 » 27 Feb 2007 11:27

so can you put a picture of this hospital???

French army used the maisy site like ammunition Dump a few moment
to store the ammunition found in the area

"""or once time ,go to visit archive"""

Lets be honest...you have taken part in the article of newspaper !!!!! the journalist doesn't had writing his article alone.


pass has another thing because yes...it's over the same things again and again...

can you give us now your point of view about batterys??
type of guns?
if they had tank turret there ? pak ? type of Flak? underground??....
Bunkers type?


dando wrote: PS..... I hate the colour of your bathroom and its NOT the largest bathroom in Normandy - I have papers from my great grandmother which say there is a bigger one in Bayeux !........... see what I mean ?
your disturbing and i see your a great comic !!!!!
stop your bunker research and work in a circus, I think you will made better work in.!!

ChristopherPerrien
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Post by ChristopherPerrien » 27 Feb 2007 22:55

Hello Dando , I have a few basic questions?

I noticed last year this site was going to open in April06 and now it seems like it is Apr07. Problems ?I guess.

I am a little uncertain, about the Maisy site, Do you own it ? or What part of it do you own? or What exactly is your connection to it?

I gather you are there quite a bit, Do you do the excavations yourself or do you have some-one doing this for you?

That is about it , it is good to see someone working toward the restoration and preservation of WWII sites , I am quite suprised at the attitude some people display argueing using "2nd hand information", when you, "owning", the place clearly have "first -hand" knowledge.

And somewhere wayback there was a picture of Paratroopers at Maisy , to be honest they don't look like paratroopers. But the photo is interesting because they appear to be drinking wine , and it looks like they have had a bivouac(sp?) in this trench.

If I get "over-there!" sometime again, I will come see the place.

Regards
Chris

-----------
And whatever " Bunker-expert :roll: " dismissed American paratrooper accounts , by saying "I don't care about paratroopers" :roll: , You still need a few Nazis/SS hanging out in your town.

rhandber
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Post by rhandber » 28 Feb 2007 03:56

This is fun reading, and no doubt a bit frustrating for dando. its like he is trying to explain that "it is a bunker right here, im infact standing on it now" and then somebody who have never been there, and dont have 100% secure information, comes and says to him that he is lying, and he doesn have a clue. As dando himself puts it, fun reading.. And as the most of us have learned dealing with journalists, knows that they write whatever suites them, and whatever sounds the most exiting. I hope some time in the close future I will be able to visit this and many other "invation sites" we should be thankfull for the time and effort people like dando spends on giving us yet more abilities to "go back" in history.

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AvB
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Post by AvB » 28 Feb 2007 14:17

Last comment for me!
I think the point is this: We German bunker experts (we can call ourselves this way) see the building (which dando describes as an important hospital) as another Vf/FA bunker. We found these kind of buildings all over Europe. For us, a 638, 639, 118, M159 etc are hospital bunkers. The importance of a building is only a relative thing. I don't dare of accusing dando of not ever visiting a Regelbau hospital but I think he doesn't have comparable 'buildings'.

Look at this! That's one of a kind!
Image

Unbelievable!
Image

No way!
Image

All hospitals..?


Also, bunker14 said "Rangers histoiry does not interest me !!".
He did not say "I don't care about paratroopers".
So stop the Nazi/SS talk because that has absolutely nothing to do with!

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bunker14
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Post by bunker14 » 01 Mar 2007 14:25

ChristopherPerrien wrote:And whatever " Bunker-expert :roll: " dismissed American paratrooper accounts , by saying "I don't care about paratroopers" :roll: , You still need a few Nazis/SS hanging out in your town.

keep your stupid comment for you!!!!

I am not obliged to interess me about US Troops
I interress more about English , Canadian troops and atlantiwall than the US troop!!!

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Richard Drew
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Being polite

Post by Richard Drew » 01 Mar 2007 17:09

I was told this was the best bunker forum to belong too. Your attitude seems to be the norm here. It is easy to be rude in any language but far harder to be polite, its time WE all tried a little harder.

Before somebody tries to attack me for being polite, try reading your email before you send it and check its detail.

Richard

jopaerya
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Post by jopaerya » 01 Mar 2007 17:35

Hello

According to the official text on the picture it's been taken at Maisy

Photo = U.S. Signal Corps N.A.

Regards Jos
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

ducatim901
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Post by ducatim901 » 01 Mar 2007 20:21

But Richard,
Have you followed the whole discussion??
Dando comes up with a story he heard and than we must explain to him that
it was not like that and how it according to German doc's or our experiences was.
But Dando ALWAYS is acting like he has been there and seen it while about ten people say
otherwise, i do not know how you call that in England but in the rest of Europe they call is stiffheaded
or even arrogant........
You may be talking a lot with former soldiers/veterans, no offence it's because of them i am now
speaking Dutch and not Russian or German, but with a museum you can throw in a lot of wrong
material/information and then it will become "the story" about the war and battles, but as you
know Dando, it takes one madman to breakdown the story that 10 researchers built up in 20 to
30 years).
If you come with a story you heard you must tell it in such a way that you have not been there
yourself, you have to be open for other people's interpretation on the story.
Hobbyist are generally better in there hobby than the worker in there work............
Greetings Jack.

O, by the way Dando i sometimes think you are one of that damn madmen....... just prove i
am wrong.
Through people like Dando and Christopherperrien i am beginning to think my brother is right, he tells me all the
time that arguing on the internet is like a men without a head learning to think for himself!!!!!!
Ben keep up the good work and do not let the madman rule your life.

dando
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Post by dando » 01 Mar 2007 20:55

What a very interesting thing to say ?

I havent come up with any stories I dont think but the newspapers did lots.

I may have said things which you dont believe but then you can spend your time saying that I am wrong. That is the concept that we liberated your country trying to maintain I believe.

Whilst we were fighting to maintain "sensible" free speach - I seem to remember a good many of your countrymen were joining the 3rd Reich on its conquest of Europe.

I think my last note said it all. I spend my time defending things which are quoted as me but I have not said.

Thats pretty straightforward - you say I said one thing and I deny it - thats a good sensible debate isnt it.

For example the hospital. I have found one - its dug up and plain for anyone to see when we open. Not a difficult concept even for someone without a head to understand.

It exists and dosent look at all like the ones shown above so what !. Ask John, Marc Laurenceau or others.

I am interested to know who the 30 people are who have spent 20 years to build up a story. In fact it would be interesting to know what the story actually is? From your IQ I would think 30 second might perhaps be better timing.

I spent a couple of years researching Maisy and couldnt find anything sensible said about the battle there.

Can you tell me what happened? I guess not - but you dont know or want to know what the Ranger veterans have to say... if I was half the man that those guys were I would be humbled. You however wouldnt even register on the scale.

I suggest you grow up - visit the site shortly and let it speak for itself - then I can prove you wrong or not. Again - its not difficult - wait 4 weeks !

For a more serious debate on Maisy Battery I suggest you go to
http://dday-overlord.forumactif.com/His ... ight=maisy - you will find that a number of the issues you so positively believe in have already been proved wrong. The range of guns to the beach etc. etc.

Your last comment says it all - "Ben keep up the good work and do not let the madman rule your life."

This isnt a sensible forum for debate - its somewhere you sad anoracks can pat each other on the back for slagging people off ..... well good luck and enjoy your playtime - I and I am sure plenty of others have had enough of the childishness.

Pass me the remote ...... I want to change channel.

PS - jopaerya - drop me a line and I will talk to you about the picture.

ChristopherPerrien
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Post by ChristopherPerrien » 01 Mar 2007 23:29

bunker14 wrote:
ChristopherPerrien wrote:And whatever " Bunker-expert :roll: " dismissed American paratrooper accounts , by saying "I don't care about paratroopers" :roll: , You still need a few Nazis/SS hanging out in your town.

keep your stupid comment for you!!!!

I am not obliged to interess me about US Troops
I interress more about English , Canadian troops and atlantiwall than the US troop!!!


So what?

No it is not a stupid comment. It was simply a comment on your dis-respect of the words of men who fought , bled and died to taking this bunker and liberating your country. I don't care if you oblige them, like them or hate them, but you could at least be courteous when dismissing them.

Forgive my earlier comment , I have no quarrel with you.
Chris

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