Railway guns of the Axis forces

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
EPOCH3
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by EPOCH3 » 21 Mar 2020 14:57

The French 194mm pieces may be the ones that Poles reused after the war (qty 5 ). Shortly after WWII these were used to establish Railway Artillery Unit belonging to Polish Navy. Andrzej who participates in the Forum has researched these pieces/units a bit and perhaps can share more info with us on them. Regards

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Manuferey
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by Manuferey » 21 Mar 2020 15:04

Thank you, Epoch3. It will be interesting to find out if the Poles also removed the top of the casemates of their 194 mm guns like the Italians.

Emmanuel

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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by EPOCH3 » 21 Mar 2020 15:14

Wrt the qty 3 Br N K (E) guns. There were several conceptual plans/drawings made up of the Bruno N being fitted with other barrels (C34 and French 24cm 02/06 barrel being among them). It makes sense that if all 3 pieces all had worn out barrels, they would have been looking to use the freed up carriages for other potential uses. The gun carriages would have probably remained in pseudo storage until a barrel solution had been found so it makes sense the Russians could have come across them as they moved West (opinion).

For anyone interested, I attached an old rendering I did that shows what the Br N with C34 barrel
would have looked like.
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jopaerya
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by jopaerya » 21 Mar 2020 15:38

Thank you very much Greg :thumbsup:

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 21 Mar 2020 16:07

EPOCH3 wrote:
21 Mar 2020 14:57
The French 194mm pieces may be the ones that Poles reused after the war (qty 5 ). Shortly after WWII these were used to establish Railway Artillery Unit belonging to Polish Navy. Andrzej who participates in the Forum has researched these pieces/units a bit and perhaps can share more info with us on them. Regards
According to my latest research it looks so that 5 of them were reused by the Navy.
They served for few year for training but due to the bad condition - they were already rusty while were captured - were scrapped.
Ive spoke the a son of a men who served in this unit and he said that they were really in band condition that shooting was quite dangerous: gun breech didn't fit tight to cause leaking of powder gases out.

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 21 Mar 2020 16:11

Andrzej Ditrich wrote:
21 Mar 2020 16:07
EPOCH3 wrote:
21 Mar 2020 14:57
The French 194mm pieces may be the ones that Poles reused after the war (qty 5 ). Shortly after WWII these were used to establish Railway Artillery Unit belonging to Polish Navy. Andrzej who participates in the Forum has researched these pieces/units a bit and perhaps can share more info with us on them. Regards
According to my latest research it looks so that 5 of them were reused by the Navy.
Im not 100% sure if the guns from the photos were the same used by Poles.
Guns served for few years for training but due to the bad condition - they were already rusty while were captured - were scrapped.
Ive spoke the a son of a men who served in this unit and he said that they were really in band condition that shooting was quite dangerous: gun breech didn't fit tight to cause leaking of powder gases out.

Sturm78
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by Sturm78 » 21 Mar 2020 16:14

Hi all,

The pieces whose tube was worn out during the siege of Sevastopol were the 28cm lange Bruno K (E).

The Neue Bruno model was developed precisely as a replacement for whose barrels came from World War I and which were worn down with the use.
(apart from the 3 new built guns)

I do not know why the Germans did not replace the barrels of the Bruno lange with the Neue Bruno. I guess at the end of 1942 they would have other priorities...

On the other hand, Is this gun a 28cm Neue Bruno K (E) ?

Image from Ebay
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forttravel
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by forttravel » 21 Mar 2020 19:46

This is a piece from Swinemünde.
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EPOCH3
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by EPOCH3 » 21 Mar 2020 19:59

The photo above of the gun under tarp is of a 28cm Br N for sure. Some old info (including Ian Hogg's book) confused the Br N with the Br Lg. That is because they confused photographs of the early 28cm K5 with Sprengwerk (barrel support) as a Br N.

Also - Sorry - I had Bruno N on the brain - above, I meant to say that the Br N, Br Kz and Br Lg configurations were all looked at regarding the possible use of other barrels (to include French ones). I just had the Br N one handy to show - sorry if that moved conversation sideways.

All the info/drawings I have for Bruno N indicate that the barrel used for that design was a new design. I had never heard that they were for older WWI barrels. I'd be interested in the source for that info. Regards

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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by forttravel » 21 Mar 2020 20:04

Manuferey wrote:
21 Mar 2020 15:04
Thank you, Epoch3. It will be interesting to find out if the Poles also removed the top of the casemates of their 194 mm guns like the Italians.
Emmanuel
Hi Emmanuel, seems yes, we removed it, there is a blurry picture evidence.
Source: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dywizjon_ ... _Kolejowej
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EPOCH3
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by EPOCH3 » 21 Mar 2020 20:06

here is a quick rendering of the Br Lg Rohr - it was somewhat unique in that
it used a Naval like elevation mechanism and it sat higher up in the trunnion bearings.
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Manuferey
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by Manuferey » 22 Mar 2020 08:34

Great info on the 194 mm in Polish service. Thank you Andrzej and forttravel. :thumbsup:

The fact that these guns have open tops makes me wonder if they were some of the former Italian guns seized by the Germans in 1943 (6 of the 12 transferred to Italy from France after the Armistice). :idea:

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Sturm78
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by Sturm78 » 22 Mar 2020 11:09

EPOCH3 wrote
All the info/drawings I have for Bruno N indicate that the barrel used for that design was a new design. I had never heard that they were for older WWI barrels. I'd be interested in the source for that info. Regards
:? ...the Neue Bruno was a new design from around 1939-40...developed to replace old barrelss from World War I

I may not express myself well... :roll:

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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by EPOCH3 » 22 Mar 2020 17:09

Just for fun - here is a comparison between Br Lang design and the Br N design to
show some differences.

Regarding the question above as to why wouldn't they have just taken worn out Bruno Lg guns
off and replaced/updated them with Br N barrels. The carriages are almost the same
but the Br N has an extension toward the rear of the carriage that housed a built-in
compressor unit. That could have been added externally to the Br Lg somehow. The Br N barrel is longer
so they would have needed to the change out the elevation mechanism and wiege as well but
that could also be done. My guess/conclusion is that there simply weren't any more Br N barrels to
be used (except maybe a spare or two). They certainly could have made more but most of the barrels made
for German railway guns were made before the war (in the later 1930s)and before war-time material
priorities were established/changed. A barrel usually took several years to make then. I believe that is
why they started to look at the captured French barrels as potential candidates but didn't really find a
solution that made the investment worth while for the Br Lg carriage (opinion).
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EPOCH3
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Re: Railway guns of the Axis forces

Post by EPOCH3 » 22 Mar 2020 21:25

For reference, here are a couple of pics showing how the enclosed gun turret on the French 194mm guns had been modified for use under Italian control.
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