Doppel schartenstand

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
jopaerya
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by jopaerya » 28 Apr 2020 18:51

Yes you are right Jack

Few at the coast and in the Landfront IJmuiden .

Regards Jos

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Eax-E
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by Eax-E » 24 Oct 2020 22:22

Hello,

Here are some stuffs about genesis of Doppelscharenstände general design & developpment.

The father of the concept is the Oberst Meyer-Delvendahl, already well known by typology freaks for the developpment of the so-called MD (Meyer Delvendahl) Ringstand for heavy Gr.W. within the AOK7 area. He was very involved in his job and gives not a impression of humility. As you'll see, he did not appreciated the standardization policy of Fest.Pi. and its efficiency. He do not wrotes a synthetical text and shawdow remains.

Here are extracts from 1943 written by "Meyer", as he used to sign his documents.
After several monthes practicing as Regiment Officier then as fortification commissioner for Fortress St-Nazaire, I have written a experience feedback report about Atlanticwall [...].
Submitting my idea again and again to the local Festungs-Pionier was useless because - I'm convinced about that - they did not have decision making power.

Standard "ST" are complicated shaped bunkers they are not responsible for. However, "VF" bunkers are negligated.

Standards "ST" MG- and Gun-Bunkers are complicated buildings containing a labyrinth of rooms - with electrical lighting only in exceptionnal cases- in which troops are desoriented and have difficulties to operate the begining.

[...]
Doppenschartenstände and muti-loopholed bunkers were systematically rejected as their size were compareable to Regelbauten.
In Saint-Nazaire, after monthes of conflicts with were becoming paralysing for me, building of a handfull of special casemates was agreed. I get this agreement only after a Festung-Pionier representant [meaning from Berlin / high hierarchy level] came here. He could verify there was not place enough for a Regelbauten bunker.
[...]
In September 1942, I designed a 5 cm KwK casemate, easy to build and in "VF" class. In December-January I finally get the agreement for the erection of my project by local Fest.Pi without the autorization of their superiors. At the end of february, Berlin finally agreed with the building of VF instead of standard "ST" bunkers. All this which are remoted from the ideal of Regelbauten was a sucees only because I invited a Officier of Fest.Pi in the field, who had a soldier backround. So he could realize the consistency of my design. In the end, Berlin created its own design from mine for standardization purpose. However, it was modified with angular entrances so the gun could not be entered withing the gunroom ! 6 monthes after, there is today the 15th of March ONE 5 cm KwK ready for use in gunbunker on the atlanic bank and it's my special casemate. All guns will be fitted in gunbunkers by 6 monthes.
[...]
Meyer Delvendahl's early casemate is probably the one in Nz1 congrioux.

A work meeting about fortification projects from 2.42 provides some informations :
Gun must be covered. As ST bunkers require too much time and workload, we recomand Oberst Meyer-Delvendahl's proposal. It offers Splittersicher protection on the top. The gun can be placed in flanking poisition. Number and size of loopholes varies. Ob. MD's project has been acknowledged as adequate but the the builind has to be adjusted in each case.
[...]
The Ob. MD drawings must be shared so they can be constructed all along the atlantic coast. [Oberbaurat's quote]
Doppelschartenstand Genesis.jpg
Best regards
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jopaerya
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by jopaerya » 25 Oct 2020 08:23

Thanks for sharing this information , Arthur :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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AvB
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by AvB » 25 Oct 2020 13:43

Very nice information Arthur. What's the source for Meyer's writing?

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Eax-E
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by Eax-E » 25 Oct 2020 17:12

Hi,

It's KTB XXV.AK ;)

KRAD1995
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by KRAD1995 » 06 Apr 2021 12:15

Hi guys,
Do you know what type is the one from WN 72 in Vierville.
IMGP2061.JPG
I will be extremely grateful if you can maybe post here some plans of this one (i think the plans posted earlier in this topic don't match this bunker)

Thank you in advance,
Konrad
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moonraker
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by moonraker » 07 Apr 2021 07:56

hi,
yes is a doppel schartenstand 5 Kwk similair at these of grandcamp Maisy and secteur J1.

Me belfra-team

KRAD1995
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by KRAD1995 » 07 Apr 2021 11:19

moonraker wrote:
07 Apr 2021 07:56
hi,
yes is a doppel schartenstand 5 Kwk similair at these of grandcamp Maisy and secteur J1.

Me belfra-team
Hi,
thanks for info.
Do you have plans of this from Vierville or the one in Grandcamp Maisy?

Best regards
Konrad.

Dirk Peeters1
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by Dirk Peeters1 » 08 Apr 2021 09:03

LAG 06 plan.jpg
WN 81 Grand Camp Maisy
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Dirk Peeters1
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by Dirk Peeters1 » 08 Apr 2021 09:05

LAG 5 cm KWK 03 plan voorlopig.jpg
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Dirk Peeters1
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by Dirk Peeters1 » 08 Apr 2021 09:13

LAG 01 plan.jpg
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patrick fleuridas
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by patrick fleuridas » 08 Apr 2021 09:39

Hello,

Thank you Dirk, you are unmissable for Atlantikwall.

Patrick

Chris T G
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by Chris T G » 08 Apr 2021 21:26

Another quick thank you. The plans will come in very handy as up until now I've been using humans in images in order to get a rough idea of the dimensions.

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moonraker
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by moonraker » 11 Apr 2021 13:44

hello please

note an error from us on the plan Wn 87 which is in fact the Wn 82. the tobruk rear the Vf schartenstand 5 Kwk is not tobruk motar but a beobachtung artillery.

please see the chart

Me belfra-team
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Dirk Peeters1
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Re: Doppel schartenstand

Post by Dirk Peeters1 » 13 Apr 2021 21:41

yes etienne i m gonna cjhange it

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