Behelfsbau

jopaerya · Post by **jopaerya** » 28 Mar 2007 09:14

Hello All

I have seen some drawings with the text "Behelfsbau" with a number attached to it
for example Bh 82-flak , most of the drawings are buildings , gunpits and lay-outs
are build in brick or wood .

My quistion is , is there also a kind of Regelbau for light fortifications a Bh serie ??

Regards Jos

TommySoelbergDK · Post by **TommySoelbergDK** » 28 Mar 2007 11:28

Hi
It could be, but it apears to be "feldmasig" and not concrete.
Maybe a concrete floor and wood/brick on top.
I think they where made, depending on location AND weapontype.
Are there drawings?
Kind regards
Tommy

jopaerya · Post by **jopaerya** » 30 Mar 2007 20:35

No one knows more of these phrase "Behelfsbau"

Regards Jos

stril · Post by **stril** » 31 Mar 2007 16:54

Hello
Added a link to a useful list. New, buit things doesnt change that much. According to that list Behelfsbau is a temporary construction/building
regards
stril
http://www.hka.admin.ch/internet/hka/de ... p/04MV.pdf

SES · Post by **SES** » 01 Apr 2007 08:26

Hi stril,
Thank you for the link. There are may useful translations, but I'm not quite sure my English teacher would agree with all of them

bregds
SES
http://www.gyges.dk

stril · Post by **stril** » 01 Apr 2007 17:06

Hello

but I'm not quite sure my English teacher would agree with all of them

I agree, but if its a guide for these people http://www.hka.admin.ch , im sure it can be used as a guide..
Regarding the behelfsbau im quite sure it is a temporary construction. Seen similar in some photos of flakpositions being buildt in Norway 1940.
regards
stril

SES · Post by **SES** » 01 Apr 2007 18:53

jopaerya · Post by **jopaerya** » 03 Apr 2007 16:34

Hello All

Here a other one Bh 13 for 28 cm S.K.L/45

Regards Jos

TommySoelbergDK · Post by **TommySoelbergDK** » 04 Apr 2007 16:26

Hi
If I understand it correctly, Behelfsbau is basicly a weapon on a bit of concrete and earthwork around or brickwork.
Such Behelfsbau's are found all over Denmark.
Just a 1m3 concrete or so, and an old gun.
The picture shows 28cm SK L/45 (Schiessgerüst).
Thar explanes the planned 40,6 cm guns in Schiessgerüst, along with S.497 or so. (Or some other gun. Forgot detailes)
Betonbettung and a gun, ready, fire!!!
BH 13-S from 1942.
The guns must be very few or very old, or thay would build a bunker for them, or what?
Happy Hollydays
Tommy

jopaerya · Post by **jopaerya** » 15 Jul 2008 08:21

Hello All

In the "Sudwall" there are some commandposts in naval batteries there are build in the form of the
Bh 23 ( Gedeckter Leitstand für schwere und mittlere ) there are 3 models depending of the seize of the range-
finder , but now it looks that in Denmark there are also Bh 23 build in the M.K.B. Aalbaek , Tversted and Hals .

Drawing's = Dirk Peeters and S.H.M. Vincennes

Regards Jos

SES · Post by **SES** » 15 Jul 2008 08:36

jopaerya wrote:Hello All

In the "Sudwall" there are some commandposts in naval batteries there are build in the form of the
Bh 23 ( Gedeckter Leitstand für schwere und mittlere ) there are 3 models depending of the seize of the range-
finder , but now it looks that in Denmark there are also Bh 23 build in the M.K.B. Aalbaek , Tversted and Hals .

Drawing's = Dirk Peeters and S.H.M. Vincennes

Regards Jos

Hi Jos,
You are right, but I'm not sure if the FCP in those places are completely identical, but they are very similar.
Jens is a better judge of that.
bregds
SES

herring · Post by **herring** » 21 Jul 2008 22:13

I've seen also very similar structure on Crete.

TommySoelbergDK · Post by **TommySoelbergDK** » 23 Jul 2008 15:31

Hi
Here is my drawing of the Leitstand in Tversted, Denmark.
There is a similar bunker at Sjaellands Odde, but with a cellar.
Kind regards
Tommy Soelberg

Klaas · Post by **Klaas** » 24 Jul 2008 13:18

Hi,

Don't think a Behelfsbau was simply a weapon on a bit of concrete, but indeed a Kriegsmarine regelbau series for Feldmässige bunkers. Enclosed is a drawing of Behelfsbau 83, not just a weapon and some concrete but a designplan for a complete Flakbatterie.

Some Behelfsbau bunker designs are also mentioned in the famous "Bestimmmungen über Regelbauten der Kriegsmarine" doc. So it looks like they were treated as 'real' Regelbauten. See enclosed part of this doc.

When combining the Behehelfbau regelbauten mentioned in this doc and forumitem the following list of Behelfsbauten can be made:

Bh 13 28 cm SKL/45
Bh 23 Gedeckter Leitstand für schwere und mittlere
Bh. 82 Flakbatterie für Geschütze mit Deckenschild
Bh. 83 Flak und Seezielbatterie für Geschütze mit Deckenschutzschild
Bh. 179 Stand für leichte Flak in Stahlbeton
Bh. 184 Einheitsflakleitstand
Bh. 212 Stand für mittlere Flak in Stahlbeton
Bh. 221 Geschützstand für 8,8 und 10,5 flak mit oder ohne Deckenschutzschild

Looks like there are lots of bunkerdesigns to be added to this list! Anybody got some more Behelfsbau bunker types?

@ Jos: At the start of this item you posted part of the Bh. 82 drawing of a Flakbatterie. Since Bh 83 is a trapezium shaped Flak und Seezielbatterie, looks like Bh 82 Flakbatterie is a square shaped Flakbatterie similar to Bh 83?

Best regards, Klaas

SES · Post by **SES** » 24 Jul 2008 15:27

Hi Klaas,
Very interesting, thanks for sharing. It is evident where the idea from the Flak batteries in Hanstholm came from.
Is the Bh unique for the KM or did the other services had a similar number system?
bregds
SES

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