3./1261

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19233
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

3./1261

Post by jopaerya » 04 Aug 2007 18:04

Hello All

Who has information about this batterie in the during the
days of the landings , specially were was it located ???
In the K.T.B. of the SeeKo Normandie it fired several times
during the first days of the invasion .
The orginal place was at the site of the M.K.B. St. Marcouf ,
but other sources place it at Fontenay . Are there any remains ?

Thanks for your help and Regards Jos

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19233
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Post by jopaerya » 07 Aug 2007 09:18

No one :( :( :(

RichTO90
Member
Posts: 4238
Joined: 22 Dec 2003 18:03

Post by RichTO90 » 07 Aug 2007 20:19

jopaerya wrote:No one :( :( :(
Sorry Jos, that one is a mystery. Part of the problem is that I can't seem to place Fontenay? :cry: But it doesn't seem to jibe with any of the other locations I have run across for 1261? So what I show is:

H.K.A.-Regt. 1261
Kdr: Oberst Gerhard Treipel
Regt.-Gefechtsstand – Le Poteau
I. Btl.
Gefechtsstand – Foucarville
1.Bttr. – St. Martin de Varreville (four 10.5cm K331 (f))
2.Bttr. – Azzeville (four 10.5cm K331 (f))
3. (KM) Bttr. – Marcouf (MAA 260)
4.Bttr. – Quineville (four 10.5cm K331 (f))
II. Btl.
Gefechtsstand – Morsalines
5.Bttr. – Crasville (four 10.5cm K331 (f))
6.Bttr. – Morsalines Battery (six 15.5cm K420 (f))
7.Bttr. – Gatteville (four 15.5cm K420 (f))
III. Btl.
Gefechtsstand – Gouberville
8.Bttr. – Aumeville-Lestre (four 10.5cm K331 (f))
9.Bttr. – La Pernelle I (six 10.5cm K331 (f))
10.Bttr. – La Pernelle II (three 17cm K.i.Mrs.L.)

Is that correct with what you have found? Of course part of the problem may be that I am transliterating German renditions of French names from occasionally very poor photocopies, which has had distressing results before, especially with Breton names? :D

User avatar
moonraker
Member
Posts: 2641
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 22:06
Location: normandie.french

Post by moonraker » 07 Aug 2007 22:22

hello jos,
there has Fontenay that a building, kind ammunition store, anything else.
regard etienne.

User avatar
kstdk
Member
Posts: 5437
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 16:59
Location: Denmark

Post by kstdk » 08 Aug 2007 07:14

Hello Jos

See this - go down to the second chapter:

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/7-4/7-4_10.HTM

Maybe you know this already, but that is the best description i have found of the situation there.

Regards
Kurt
kstdk

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19233
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Post by jopaerya » 08 Aug 2007 09:24

Thanks you all for your replays

On the list from A.O.K. 7 from 01-06-1944 the batterie is listed as
H.K.B. 3./1261 - 6 x 15.5 cm K 418 (f) - 1 K.M. nord of St Marcouf .

Much to my suprise the batterie was firing in the first days of the
invasion according to the K.T.B. of the SeeKo Normandie .

06-06-1944 - 16:00 = 3./1261 schiesst Landungssperrfeuer
06-06-1944 - 16:02 = Arko 118 meldet Zwichen W.n. 5 u 9 Landungen , 3./1261
schiesst Landungssperrfeuer
06-06-1944 - 16:30 = 2. u 3./1261 und 1./456 schiessen Sperfeuer im Raum ostw. Ulm
06-06-1944 - 18:10 = Arko 118 : Feuer von Kreuzern auf Marcouf und anscheidend 3./1261
07-06-1944 - 19:21 = Arko 118 meldet 3./1261 hat einen auf See still liegenden Kreuzer angepeilt und eröffenet das Feuer
08-06-1944 - 11:09 = 3./1261 Stellungswechsel
08-06-1944 - 14:05 = HK-Art-Reg 1261 meldet: Geschossen haben seit heute morgen
2./- , 3./- , 6./- und 10./1261 z. Teil auf Landziele . Batterien sind beschossen worden

This last one that mention the 3./1261

Regards Jos

User avatar
kstdk
Member
Posts: 5437
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 16:59
Location: Denmark

Post by kstdk » 08 Aug 2007 10:34

Hello Jos

Hmmm.......Did you see that Aumeville-Lestre was mentioned for 3/1261 - they obviously mooved there from Fontenay??

Could they have joined the 8 Battr.?

Regards
Kurt
kstdk

User avatar
Manuferey
Member
Posts: 4081
Joined: 17 May 2007 14:52
Location: Virginia

Post by Manuferey » 22 Aug 2007 20:38

Jos,

In June 44, 3./1261 was positioned in field emplacements on a hill with a direct view of the sea, near Chateau de Courcy. I’ve located only a small bunker so far. This "chateau" (more a big manor than a castle) is in the vicinity of Fontenay-sur-mer, not far from the Marcouf battery where the 3./1261 was once stationned as 3./832, before the arrival of the MKB and its 21 cm guns. However, prior to D-Day, the Allies thought that the "Chateau de Courcy" battery only had 4 x 105 mm. They corrected their information some times after the landings.

The 3./1261 was armed with 6x 155 GPF guns from French origin - 15,5 cm K418(f) - and was able to retreat in several steps towards the Fortress Cherbourg in June 44, towed by heavy tractors from the 456th and 457th motorized artillery battalions. The 3./1261 may have lost one gun to naval bombardment on D-Day. On June 8, the 3./1261 was repositionned for a few days near Lestre and provided heavy artillery support towards the south. After that, I haven't found yet where in the Cherbourg Fortress it retreated. It was taken by the Americans at the fall of Cherbourg.

To Rich TO90, a fellow Virginian:
- the commander’ name of 1261 HKAR spelled Triepel, not Treipel.
Triepel and the HKAR 1261’s staff were ordered south when the Americans cut the Cotentin peninsula later in June 44 and Triepel went on to fight in the Battle of the Bulge as a General-Major of the LVIII Panzer Corps Artillery.
- the names in the locales on the maps are Normands, not Bretons, as HKAR 1261 was based in Normandy, not Brittany. I know it’s pretty close, viewed from this side of the Atlantic. But between Normands and Bretons it’s the same type of animosity as between Virginians and West Virginians. It’s because of Mont-Saint-Michel, but that’s a different story!

Also here are some corrections on the organization and armament of HKAR 1261:
4./1261 (Quinéville – Mont Coquerel) was part of II./1261, not I./1261
7./1261 (Gateville) was part of III./1261, not II./1261. It actually had 6 heavy guns: 4 in casemates and 2 still in open emplacements.
8./1261 was at Equeurdreville/Les Couplets, just west of Cherbourg. Still surrounded by some mystery. Would have to be part of III./1261.

MKB Marcouf was part of MAA 260 (HQ Cherbourg), not HKAR 1261, and was actually never numbered 3./1261. Unlike MKB Longues, included in HKAR 1260, MKB Marcouf was not under the command of the Army (Heer) before D-Day. The confusion comes from the 3./1261 located nearby and that was forgotten for a long time.

Emmanuel

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19233
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Post by jopaerya » 22 Aug 2007 21:14

Hello Emmanuel

Thanks for clearing this up , it fits 100% in the story that I have .
A other mystery solved , do you have anymore information about
what the type is of these heavy tractors ?

Regards Jos

User avatar
Manuferey
Member
Posts: 4081
Joined: 17 May 2007 14:52
Location: Virginia

Post by Manuferey » 23 Aug 2007 14:42

Jos,

No, I don't have any other data on the heavy tractors.

Emmanuel

RichTO90
Member
Posts: 4238
Joined: 22 Dec 2003 18:03

Post by RichTO90 » 23 Aug 2007 15:08

Manuferey wrote:To Rich TO90, a fellow Virginian:
Er, sorry, but no, I live in Virginia, but was born in Kentucky and am an Army brat, so consider myself a Pennsylvanian, my parents home. :)

- the commander’ name of 1261 HKAR spelled Triepel, not Treipel.
Gack! How embarassing, I know that, but tend to be a somewhat dyslexic typist, thanks for catching it.
Triepel and the HKAR 1261’s staff were ordered south when the Americans cut the Cotentin peninsula later in June 44 and Triepel went on to fight in the Battle of the Bulge as a General-Major of the LVIII Panzer Corps Artillery.
- the names in the locales on the maps are Normands, not Bretons, as HKAR 1261 was based in Normandy, not Brittany. I know it’s pretty close, viewed from this side of the Atlantic. But between Normands and Bretons it’s the same type of animosity as between Virginians and West Virginians. It’s because of Mont-Saint-Michel, but that’s a different story!
Yes, I know the differenc between Brittany and Normandy, I was referring to an earlier problem I had with Breton names....and trying to correct them in a 100-odd page document ain't easy, since I spelt them as I could read them off the originals, which wasn't very well. :?
Also here are some corrections on the organization and armament of HKAR 1261:
4./1261 (Quinéville – Mont Coquerel) was part of II./1261, not I./1261
7./1261 (Gateville) was part of III./1261, not II./1261. It actually had 6 heavy guns: 4 in casemates and 2 still in open emplacements.
8./1261 was at Equeurdreville/Les Couplets, just west of Cherbourg. Still surrounded by some mystery. Would have to be part of III./1261.

MKB Marcouf was part of MAA 260 (HQ Cherbourg), not HKAR 1261, and was actually never numbered 3./1261. Unlike MKB Longues, included in HKAR 1260, MKB Marcouf was not under the command of the Army (Heer) before D-Day. The confusion comes from the 3./1261 located nearby and that was forgotten for a long time.

Emmanuel
Thanks, that clears up that mystery finally. How did you happen to come across the answer?

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19233
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Re: 3./1261

Post by jopaerya » 05 Jul 2018 16:17

Looking for the Stp. or Wn. number of the new location of the 3./1261 near Fontenay sur Mer ??
Could be that they used the old number 134 from old H.K.B. Saint Marcouf for that , but my
latest map from that area is from 01-01-1944 . Who can help me out .

Regards Jos

pvv8
Member
Posts: 90
Joined: 07 Dec 2022 12:46
Location: Moorsel, België

Re: 3./1261

Post by pvv8 » 16 Dec 2022 11:10

Hi Jos,

re : "Could be that they used the old number 134 from old H.K.B. Saint Marcouf for that"

Did you obtain more info regarding Widerstandsnest 134 ?
And if so...could you confirm that Wn 134 was dedicated to the Leitstand ( R120a ) of HKB Azeville, build near the SK Leitstand of Crisbecq ?

Thx in advance
Patrick

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19233
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Re: 3./1261

Post by jopaerya » 18 Dec 2022 10:12

Hello Patrick

No solid proof , but here some findings. Few open emplacements have the pivot for the 15.5 cm K. (f) some other changed for the 21 cm guns
Also the the Leitstand SK,134,621,120a and others were built in 1943 so that was in the time that the batterie was still a H.K.B. 3./832 .
( 6 X 15.5 cm (f) ) in my opinion .

Photo = Dirk Peeters
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

pvv8
Member
Posts: 90
Joined: 07 Dec 2022 12:46
Location: Moorsel, België

Re: 3./1261

Post by pvv8 » 18 Dec 2022 11:00

Thx Jos for the info

The info that I have found was that all the bunkers belonged to Stützpunkt 135 HKB Marcouf
except the 120a, which was the Leitstand for MKB Azeville, was dedicated as Widerstandsnest 134
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Return to “Fortifications, Artillery, & Rockets”