Luftwaffe numbering Holland

[jopaerya]

Sorry Klaas

I already e-mailed Jeroen , it was a year ago for sale .

Regards Jos

[Klaas]

Hi Jos,

Thanks, it was indeed Jeroen that was interested in the pic...

Best regards, Klaas

[jopaerya]

Hello All

Here some FM numbering form Schouwen it looks that every
building has it's own number even the Tobruks are numbered .

Regards Jos

[Liesje]

Hi,

Never seen any document or map describing the zones. But in the docs related to the Neue Westwall the use of the Bauwerk Nr can be found. Please see attached doc, for the use of EH-Bauwerk Nummern for VF- and Küverbunkers in the Hoek van Holland area.

Does anybody know where in Hoek van Holland the Küverbunkers were build ?

Regards,
Annelies

[jopaerya]

Hi Annelies

I don't have the complete awnser , but in W.N. 22 H there were 4 X 450a and 1 of 450a , 451a and 452a .

Regards Jos

[Liesje]

Thanks for your answer Jos!

That's in 'het Roomse Duin', I had no idea that those bunkers are Küverbunkers. Interesting!

Regards,
Annelies

[Peter de Krom]

Hello Everyone,

To add some examples of the Alphabetic system. In Hoek van Holland also many ST. bunkers we're first/still numbered with the E sector letter. A very nice example is the M.K.B. Vineta and M.A.A. 205 Markostand's location.

Here most of the ST bunkers were first given a EM.... (Marine) number. And as time past by they changed everything to the new system. So perhaps you could make the conclusion that in H.v.H. the numbers were still standard in 1943.
When they changed the old EM numbers a red paint was used for the new number. And while the paintbrush was probably still in there hand they erased the old (with a nice straight square). And in some cases you can still read the old number thru the paint.
Also early maps of the M.K.B. vineta show the EM numbers.

IMG_3150.jpg (129.47 KiB) Viewed 1079 times

Then there are more examples in the Aussere Landfront of H.v.H. It appears some ST bunkers we're given both the EH(eer) and modern Atlantikwall number (and even the type).

IMG_7629.jpg (128.27 KiB) Viewed 1079 times

About the list of Vf and Kuvers in HvH. I believe most of the Kuver numbers are indeed in Wn. 22 (Roomseduin), but also a few we're build along the Waterweg. Many other Vf bunkers also still contain there E numbers. For example some Tobruks and all the standard Vf types that we're build directly along the coast and Waterweg. Although some of them we're destroyed in the last 10 years.

And one last point. The photo mentioned earlier from ebay is indeed Oostvoorne. Almost forgot i bought that one
I'll contact Jeroen about this.

[jopaerya]

Thanks Peter

I think that you made Jeroen a very happy man , it's a small world .
Nice to see the numbering on the 621 with both numbers and the type .

Regards Jos

[der bunkermann]

hi guys, i dont think the list on the prev. page is from WN 22H, because ther are alot missing
gr, tim

[Peter de Krom]

Hi Jos and Tim,

Included the backside of the photo. Perhaps someone's reading skills are better then mine?
I (want to) read "Eingang zu unseren Bunker ...... 1943"

img018.jpg (121.06 KiB) Viewed 990 times

Tim. The list posted before is a part of the complete list i believe. Can't check right now but there should be another page with more Kuver types.

[Liesje]

Hi Tim,

If I can see it correctly then behind the 3rd Küver on the list someone has written WN 20H.
This is along the Nieuwe Waterweg, and as Peter mentioned there were also some Küver bunkers there.
So I don't think the list is of WN 22H

Regards,
Annelies

[der bunkermann]

liesje your right
the VF 4b of WN 17H is also mentioned...

gr, tim

[Peter de Krom]

Hey Tim and Annelies,

The VF4b is indeed on the list. And the notes on the paper are probably post war. Anyone here that could not resist using a pen in the archives? I believe the origin is the NIOD in Amsterdam.
The list just contains many Kuver en VF types build in the area of HvH. So not only Wn. 22. There all over the place... It's just that most Kuver bunkers were build in Wn. 22

[Jeroen R.]

Indeed I’am a happy man! Thanks Peter! Via Jos I already contacted the seller of the pic to ask who bought it. Never got an anwer, but now I got it! Great. For the insiders: it is the bunker just under Riese Rot (map p.50, booklet ‘Radarstelling Biber’).
The list of bunkernumbers can be found in NIOD, archive ‘Ways und Freitag’. I’ve once seen a small map with the zones of the A-G numbering in Holland in NIMH. It was in my early days, when I had no clou…..and not registered my findings. Unfortunately, never seen it again.
Jeroen

[ducatim901]

Hi Jeroen, I thought they were in the WP, but i have to search for the map.......I recently found OT docs in The NA, some from the the Festung IJmuiden (Also some Zandvoort, FK IJm-Zandv, castricum and Egmond a Z) the bunkers just got normal B.Nr's, also the VF (and Küverbunker), Tobruk and bettungen for 5cm KwK.
I seems only the Luftwaffe in the Netherlands used the letter-number B.Nr's throug the whole WBN for VF/Küver and St-bunkers, Marine and Heer just used normal B.Nr's.
Only in the KVA Dordrecht the EH/EM/EL numbering was used.
P.S. in the same archive i also found German maps of Küverbunkers, o.a. 409/408/455.
Where did you found your maps of the Küvers for your Küverbunkerbook??
Greetings JK.