German Coastal Artillery

[Andy H]

Hi Karl

As Juha has correctly stated they were sunk in '41, but the arnament and sections of armour were raised from the semi-submerged ships for use in coastal fortifications, which I'm interested in finding out about.

Andy from the Shire

[Andy H]

Hi Karl

As Juha has correctly stated they were sunk in '41, but the arnament and sections of armour were raised from the semi-submerged ships for use in coastal fortifications, which I'm interested in finding out about.

Andy from the Shire

[Mark V]

Antonio, Erik, Juha,

What do you think about my speculation that those 13cm Vickers/Obuhov guns might be originated from same source than the 30.5cm ones - Russian battleship Imperator Alexandr III ??

It just seem too much to be just coincidence - 18 guns, same number that was the armament of the ship. And thinking about where these guns were coming - from France, i can't think many other possible sources. From Britain or USSR it would be different.

Regards

Mark V

[Juha Tompuri]

Mark V,

I Think you are right. It`s more than propable that the guns came from that ship. But why didn`t we buy/ get the whole battleship, atleast when it was at OK condition? Sure you know the advantages of ship over coastal guns . Perhaps there was some trouble in finding who really owned the ex-Imperial Russian ship(s?).
The mounting of these 13cm guns would then be a ship borne origin.
Now it seems to be up to Erik to find out the origin of the guns: Vickers/Obuhov. Sure he knows.
BTW Mark, have you seen the last gun at your Non-Axis Equipment.../Vickers Photographic Archive/Armament/Naval Gun site ? I spend some 1/2 hours by watching hundreds of pics, but no matches to the 130mm I was looking for.

Regards, Juha

[Mark V]

Hi, Juha

Freezing cold eh....

Mark V,

I Think you are right. It`s more than propable that the guns came from that ship. But why didn`t we buy/ get the whole battleship, atleast when it was at OK condition? Sure you know the advantages of ship over coastal guns . Perhaps there was some trouble in finding who really owned the ex-Imperial Russian ship(s?).

Well, apparently this is open question in this forum, alltough we two agree strongly on this issue. And i don't think the Imperator Alexandr III was condition to sail anywhere but scrapping yard by 30s.

The mounting of these 13cm guns would then be a ship borne origin.
Now it seems to be up to Erik to find out the origin of the guns: Vickers/Obuhov. Sure he knows.
BTW Mark, have you seen the last gun at your Non-Axis Equipment.../Vickers Photographic Archive/Armament/Naval Gun site ? I spend some 1/2 hours by watching hundreds of pics, but no matches to the 130mm I was looking for.
Regards, Juha

No need to look further than that good old: http://www.warships1.com/Weapons/WNRuss ... _m1913.htm



... there it is.

Also, near the very end of Vickers Photographic Archives naval guns section there is a 5.1 inch weapon (stange calibre for a British weapon) that has ordnance looking somewhat similar (at least barrel) - alltough mount is looking very much different. Well, i would think this weapon was deployed in wide variety of mounts - just thinking how long and on how many types of vessels it served.

Regards

Mark V

[Mark V]

Hi Karl

As Juha has correctly stated they were sunk in '41, but the arnament and sections of armour were raised from the semi-submerged ships for use in coastal fortifications, which I'm interested in finding out about.

Andy from the Shire

Hi Andy.

Some excellent views of the former, glorious life of that ordnance:

http://history.navy.mil/photos/images/h46000/h46043.jpg
http://history.navy.mil/photos/images/n ... 601014.jpg
http://history.navy.mil/photos/images/n ... 040113.jpg
http://history.navy.mil/photos/images/n10000/n14908.jpg
http://history.navy.mil/photos/images/n ... 620201.jpg
http://history.navy.mil/photos/images/h71000/h71046.jpg


...and the sorry end afloat:

http://history.navy.mil/photos/images/h54000/h54431.jpg
http://history.navy.mil/photos/images/h54000/h54430.jpg
http://history.navy.mil/photos/images/h77000/h77440.jpg

[Juha Tompuri]

Mark V,

Impressing.
From your link:
http://www.warships1.com -Warships Of TheWorld-Russia-Combatants-Battleships-Imperatritsa Maria class(Imperator Alexander III/Volya)

Regards, Juha

P.S. "We" really should have bought the ship before 1936

[Erik E]

Now it seems to be up to Erik to find out the origin of the guns

Well, I just got some important info on the 13cm guns!

Here is the story:

In January the Finnish steamer "Nina" was in Genoa, Italy to collect weapons bought by the Finnish government. On their return, the 12.3.40 when Soviet attaced Finnland, the ship was ordered to a safe harbour in Norway. When the Germans attacked Norway 9.4.40, the ship got into German arrest.
-11.4.40 Ship and cargo claimed by "Hafenkommandant Bergen"
-31.04.40 Most of the equipment unloaded in Bergen.
-06.07.40 The ship is returned to the Finnish government but a "Fürherbefel" claims German ownership of the cargo, consisting of
4 30,5 cm cannons and 18 13cm cannons

So folks, these guns never reached Finland, but what the heck did they do in Italy? Where was this Russian ship broken up?

Regards
Erik E

[Erik E]

Forgot to say thet the Germans gave these 13Cm`s the nickname "Nina-geschutz" ater the name of the Finnish steamer!

EE

[Mark V]

but what the heck did they do in Italy? Where was this Russian ship broken up?
Regards
Erik E

Hi.

Interesting.

It was in Med anyways. So it is very much possible. This would have ment that ship was scrapped in Italy, or Italy would have bought the guns from French before the war - which i don't believe. In all information i have found is prefix "scrapped by" not the usual "scrapped at".

[Erik E]

Breaking news!

There are one existing example of the 13cm at MKB 9./504 Nordfjord

Photos from:
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/lexington/12/

[Mark V]

Hi.

Erik, you are the expert on these issues for sure, but may i still ask:

Are you sure that it is 13cm/55 M1913 gun and not one of the later 13cm/50 models ??

From that same site: >>> There is one 13 cm. KL/50(r) gun left, and the remains of the second one, but the 13 cm. KL/55(r), the last of the "Nina-cannons", is gone for ever.

From Festung Norwegen: >>> Equipped with 1 x 13 cm L/55 M 1915, range 21100 m, and two 13 cm L/50 M 1940 Russian naval guns. (also called ”Nina”-guns) - in this the naming is backwards

Regards

Mark V

[Juha Tompuri]

Erik,

Sure you knew.
The pics however were not from the "Nina" guns. But your link verified one such gun beign there.

Regards, Juha

[Erik E]

Well.....No mather what it is it`s nice

According to my information, this battery had 3x13cm SKL/55(r)

I like to believe my own sources before I quote others.......
It could ofcourse be right, but it sounds strange that a battery was equipped with 2 different guns......

As we have seen, these cannons were placed 3 in each battery so if there was only 2 here......where is the last???

Regards
Erik E

[Mark V]

Well, actually Erik didn't even said that it was L55 model. I just assumed that, because we were talking about that.

Anyways, the ordnance looks to me bit more L50 than the old Vickers/Obuhov design.

Also the gun shield looks like WW2 era Soviet (OK- that doesn't mean too much).

Regards, Mark V