15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

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Sturm78
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by Sturm78 » 16 Sep 2019 23:25

Hi all,

An 155mm Schneider howitzer captured in North Africa. According to the wheels of this howitzer I would say an US howitzer supplied to the British Army in 1941, so technically not an 15.5cm sFH414(f)....

Image from Ebay
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na4222
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by na4222 » 17 Sep 2019 02:39

Thanks Sturm. Other photos in the same series show the gun being used by the Germans (at least the aiming sites are installed) so I’m guessing it’s a modernized French gun taken by the Germans to North Africa.

Best,
Nezar

na4222
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by na4222 » 17 Sep 2019 02:39

Thanks Sturm. Other photos in the same series show the gun being used by the Germans (at least the aiming sites are installed) so I’m guessing it’s a modernized French gun taken by the Germans to North Africa.

Best,
Nezar

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by T. A. Gardner » 17 Sep 2019 03:19

According to Peter Chamberlin and Terry Gander in Heavy Artillery this sort of gun was used by the South Africans in North Africa and were originally M1918A3's.

Image

Note the S. African style pith helmets on a couple of the crew in the photo.

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 17 Sep 2019 18:56

Since British Medium Regiments used this in North Africa I'd say it was much more likely to have been captured there.
Alan

Sturm78
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by Sturm78 » 17 Sep 2019 19:00

Nezar wrote
Thanks Sturm. Other photos in the same series show the gun being used by the Germans (at least the aiming sites are installed) so I’m guessing it’s a modernized French gun taken by the Germans to North Africa.
The wheels of the modernized French howitzers are the different pattern...so it is a US-built howitzer as T. A. Gardner said

T. A. Gardner wrote
According to Peter Chamberlin and Terry Gander in Heavy Artillery this sort of gun was used by the South Africans in North Africa and were originally M1918A3's.
Thanks for your reply, T. A. Gardner


Sturm78

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Urmel
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by Urmel » 18 Sep 2019 23:48

Sturm78 wrote:
17 Sep 2019 19:00
Nezar wrote
Thanks Sturm. Other photos in the same series show the gun being used by the Germans (at least the aiming sites are installed) so I’m guessing it’s a modernized French gun taken by the Germans to North Africa.
The wheels of the modernized French howitzers are the different pattern...so it is a US-built howitzer as T. A. Gardner said

T. A. Gardner wrote
According to Peter Chamberlin and Terry Gander in Heavy Artillery this sort of gun was used by the South Africans in North Africa and were originally M1918A3's.
Thanks for your reply, T. A. Gardner


Sturm78
You are completely correct. The German used guns purchased in Tunisia from the French army there. They were not shipped from Europe. These guns were not modernised, and had the old wooden wheels, as far as I can tell. They were drawn on a special carriage. More info here:

https://rommelsriposte.com/2009/07/22/c ... used-them/

and here

https://rommelsriposte.com/2011/02/23/f ... revisited/

The fact that these guns were captured with those of Italian 46 Regiment does not in my view confirm they were assigned to it. German medium artillery may have been assigned to reinforce it.

and here

https://rommelsriposte.com/2011/06/15/8 ... uary-1942/

The latter includes numbers sent to the Empire forces. The 155mm howitzer was used by Australian and British medium regiments.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Manuferey
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by Manuferey » 17 May 2020 18:06

Sturm78 wrote:
16 Sep 2019 23:25
Hi all,
An 155mm Schneider howitzer captured in North Africa. According to the wheels of this howitzer I would say an US howitzer supplied to the British Army in 1941, so technically not an 15.5cm sFH414(f)....
Image from Ebay
Sturm78
Here is another picture of the same ebay auction. Both pictures had the date “1. Nov. 1942” stamped in the back from what the auction showed. We clearly see the wheel, typical of the US built 155 mm M1917 and M1918, and different from the two types of French wheels.

155M1917Germans.jpg
T. A. Gardner wrote:
17 Sep 2019 03:19
According to Peter Chamberlin and Terry Gander in Heavy Artillery this sort of gun was used by the South Africans in North Africa and were originally M1918A3's.
If I’m not mistaken the M1918 Howitzer had a straight shield. The curved shield was for the M1917 Howitzer.

Here is another picture of an M1917 Howitzer with the same light color as the one inspected by the Germans above.
Interestingly, the caption indicates that the gun was captured by British troops at Mersa Matruh in November 1942. Maybe it was captured by the Germans on Nov. 1st and recaptured by the British afterwards. Or the caption is completely wrong, which by looking as the caliber of 210 mm, is quite possible.

Source: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C14675
155AWM3920226.jpg
Emmanuel
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Urmel
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by Urmel » 18 May 2020 13:58

I think it is far more likely that the gun was captured by the Germans during the Gazala/Tobruk operations in Spring 1942, and then recaptured in November. I am not aware of 210mm guns being issued to Eighth Army. The 150mm went to the Australians as well.

https://crusaderproject.wordpress.com/2 ... uary-1942/
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Sturm78
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by Sturm78 » 27 Jul 2020 22:08

Hi all,

Some images from Ebay. According to photo caption, France 1940, so I am not sure if just captured French howitzers or ex-Polish howitzers

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na4222
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by na4222 » 28 Jul 2020 10:45

Probably captured ex polish howitzers. Super interesting to seem them in German service so early in the war.

Nezar

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schwarzermai
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by schwarzermai » 28 Jul 2020 17:35

na4222 wrote:
28 Jul 2020 10:45
Probably captured ex polish howitzers. Super interesting to seem them in German service so early in the war.

Nezar
Hello Nezar, i think only 4 Abteilungen had s.F.H 17 (p) and where in April 1940 kriegsgliederungsmäßig unterstellt to

IV./401(206. Inf.Div.), IV./402 (213. Inf.Div.), IV./403 (221. Inf.Div.), IV./404 (218. Inf.Div.)

uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

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forttravel
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by forttravel » 28 Jul 2020 17:47

Here some links to Polish manuals:

description, service and ammo: http://zbrojownia.cbw.wp.mil.pl:8080/Co ... CZ_2_B.pdf

drill/action (I don't know exact English word, we have own one "działoczyny" :roll: ): http://zbrojownia.cbw.wp.mil.pl:8080/Co ... CZ_1_B.pdf

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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by na4222 » 28 Jul 2020 17:49

Thank you Uwe!

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Manuferey
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Re: 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Post by Manuferey » 28 Jul 2020 20:36

schwarzermai wrote:
28 Jul 2020 17:35
na4222 wrote:
28 Jul 2020 10:45
Probably captured ex polish howitzers. Super interesting to seem them in German service so early in the war.

Nezar
Hello Nezar, i think only 4 Abteilungen had s.F.H 17 (p) and where in April 1940 kriegsgliederungsmäßig unterstellt to

[...], IV./404 (218. Inf.Div.)

uwe
Thanks Uwe. It fits. A note on the ebay page mentions "Der Artillerist kämpfte bei der 11.Bat./Art.Regt.218 im Westfeldzug und war nach dem Sieg in Frankreich.

Emmanuel

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