Skoda AA Gun

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purilacorix
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Skoda AA Gun

#1

Post by purilacorix » 10 Jun 2008, 21:52

Hi, my name is Mariano im from Argentina.
I have this picture of an argentinian Skoda Anti aircraft gun, but i dont know wich model it is.
I think that this model of Skoda also participated with the german forces in WW2...

Image

Thanks!
Sorry my bad english.

jopaerya
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#2

Post by jopaerya » 10 Jun 2008, 22:33

Hello Mariano

Good to have you here in this Forum , I am not 100% sure but I think a 8 cm Pl vz 33 aka 7.65 cm Flak 33 (t)

Photo = Ebay.de

Regards Jos
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7.5 cm Flak 35 (t).jpg
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purilacorix
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#3

Post by purilacorix » 10 Jun 2008, 22:49

Thanks jopaerya,
so, the flak 33 (t) was the chzek Skoda mod.1928?
Do you have more info about the flak 33?

rgds
Mariano.

jopaerya
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#4

Post by jopaerya » 11 Jun 2008, 08:27

Hello Mariano

This information is from the book A.A. guns from P. Chamberlain & T. Gander

Calibre - 7.65 cm 3.012 in.
Lenght of piece - ( L/50 ) 3825 mm 150.6 in
Weight in action - 2440.7 kg 5376 lb
Elevation - 0 to 85 degrees
Traverse - 360
M.V. - 808m/s 2650 ft/s
Maximum ceiling - 8388 m 27500 feet
Shell weight 6765 kg 14.9 lb
Rate of Fire - 15- 20 rpm
Manufacturer - Skoda Pilzen

Regards Jos

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The Edge
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#5

Post by The Edge » 11 Jun 2008, 11:03

Word of caution - there was no "PL vz.33 Skoda" - Czechoslovak Army had no such gun in its inventory.

However, there was 8-cm (76.5mm) L/50 commercial AA gun. It is sold to Yugoslavia (among others) as "M.1928" model (there was also slightly modified M.28A model, probably bought circa 1933). There is no specific German designation for these Yugoslav versions, so I suspect they were used as "Flak 33(t)" ones.

Data for Yugoslav gun is similar to "vz.33" one, except Yugoslavia used much heavier round: 8.1 kg (Vo 700 m/s). If I remember correctly, 112 guns were bought (80 x M.28 & 32 x M.28A). It is used by Yugoslav Coastal Arty well into the 1960s. One was present at Belgrade Military museum display, but it disappeared in 1990s inexplicably.

jopaerya
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#6

Post by jopaerya » 11 Jun 2008, 11:20

Thanks The Edge

For the correction and the additional information could this photo be the M 28A without the muzzle break ?

Photo = Ebay.de

Regards Jos
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The Edge
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#7

Post by The Edge » 11 Jun 2008, 11:42

This is the most published photo of some Yugoslav AA gun - unfortunately, I can't confirm it is "M.28A" (but it has some kind of muzzle-brake at the front of the barrel).

Standard Yugoslav brochures always portaits M.28 AA gun with Schneider-type muzzle brake (as used on M.28 field guns & lt. howitzers)

I'll see more in my documentation for tomorrow.

purilacorix
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#8

Post by purilacorix » 11 Jun 2008, 22:18

Thank you!

Well, i leave you my web page of Argentinian military history.

www.argentinaoob.com.ar

rgds!

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The Edge
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#9

Post by The Edge » 12 Jun 2008, 11:45

purilacorix wrote:Well, i leave you my web page of Argentinian military history.
Thanks for posting the link - I'll examine it and watch for up-dates. :D
(First impression - artillery list is too short; for example, no Bofors entries from 1930s - did Argentina used their M.29 AA gun?)

That bellow is Yugoslav Skoda M.28 photo (not the best one) from 1965 Army "Armament Review" booklet.
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The Edge
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#10

Post by The Edge » 12 Jun 2008, 12:26

More about 8cm "vz.33" AA gun.

From the list of Czechoslovak armament in 1938 - there is no such gun.
(in 8cm there are old, WWI models, vz.5/8 and vz.14, then "brand-new" vz. 37; nothing between)

Then I found this: http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/32605
(data fits for "vz.33" & last line say there was 96 pieces of this gun in 1938) 8O

Well, this is something that only Czech could solve!
(there is one book mentioned:
Fidler, Jiøí - Sluka, Václav: Encyklopedie branné moci Republiky èeskoslovenské 1920-1938. Praha, Libri 2006.)

Curiousity: Yugoslavia bought Skoda FE field guns (8cm L/40) and EF Lt. howitzers (10cm L/25). Much the same guns were adopted by CS Army as vz.30 models.
Now we have M.28 Yugoslav Skoda AA gun (8cm L/50) and some Czech "vz. 30" with same characteristics. :roll:

Pavel Novak
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#11

Post by Pavel Novak » 12 Jun 2008, 13:20

Hallo all
at first info in http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/32605 is wrong (wrong designation, wrong caliber), just ignore it

But take into account that 8 cm vzor 37 is actually that commercial gun sold to Yugoslavia. As I stated some time before czechoslovak army originally didn't want these guns because of its small caliber for air defence of state (previous standard AAG was 8.35 cm vzor 22) but with large threat from Germany czechoslovak army needed new weapons immediately so it was decided to order these guns before new AAG in right caliber would be available.

There were also another weapon: 7.5 cm vzor 37 intended for air defence of army (ordered but not delivered before Munich treaty).

Regards

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The Edge
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#12

Post by The Edge » 12 Jun 2008, 13:39

Pavel,

First, I'm glad to see you at AHF again. :D Also, I'm glad that "vz. 30" issue is solved.

Second, I was simply repeating your (posted before) objection - there was not a 8cm "vz. 33" AA gun in CS armament.

But (third) one question remains: what the @#&% is "Flak 33(t)" ?! :? Where the Germans found them?

P.S. I found Yugoslav two vz.14/19 howitzers manufactured in 1938. (One in Belgrade, other in Rio de Janeiro)
Question: Did Skoda produced that model as late as 1938? (I suspect these were made in Poland)

Pavel Novak
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#13

Post by Pavel Novak » 12 Jun 2008, 14:00

I didn't have any info that Skoda produced 10 cm vzor 14/19 as late as 1938 but I know that 8 cm vzor 17 was produced in 1938 as a special order for czechoslovak army because 8 cm vzor 30 was intended for army and corps artillery (as 10 cm vzor 30) and divisional artillery had 8 cm vzor 17 (together with 10 cm vzor 14/19 except mountain units) and because there were some shortages of these guns it was decided to order some to have same types of guns in all divisional artillery. It is than possible that also some 10 cm vzor 14/19 were produced for same reason but I don't know that.

Development of new divisional artillery (both calibers) was not ready to army tests in 1938.
During mobilisation number of guns in 7.5 and 7.65 cm reached demanded numbers (4 guns per battery) but numbers of 10 cm and 15 cm were insuffcient so there were only 3 guns in battery for these calibers.

I don't know where Germans take designation Flak 33 (t) may be something as 4.7 cm PaK 36 (t) for mobile gun although czechoslovak designation was 4.7 cm vzor 38.

purilacorix
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#14

Post by purilacorix » 12 Jun 2008, 18:15

The Edge wrote:
purilacorix wrote:Well, i leave you my web page of Argentinian military history.
Thanks for posting the link - I'll examine it and watch for up-dates. :D
(First impression - artillery list is too short; for example, no Bofors entries from 1930s - did Argentina used their M.29 AA gun?)

That bellow is Yugoslav Skoda M.28 photo (not the best one) from 1965 Army "Armament Review" booklet.
Hi again,
The artillery list is almost complete, Argentina didnt use any Bofors gun for ground artillery. The only Bofors gun bought was the mod.36 AA.
Thank you for the picture, if you give me permission i would post it in my web page.
About the M.28, did Germany used this gun in WW2?

Rgds,
Mariano.

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The Edge
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Re: Skoda AA Gun

#15

Post by The Edge » 13 Jun 2008, 10:19

purilacorix wrote: Argentina didnt use any Bofors gun for ground artillery. The only Bofors gun bought was the mod.36 AA
Don't tell me you missed 200 guns? 8O :wink:

Argentine Bofors M1935 75mm L40 - 224 were ordered by Argentine of which 200 were delivered before WW2.
The other 24 were taken over by the Swedish government at the start of WW2, 8 went to the Finish army during January 1940, 16 were completed during 1940 and used by the Swedish army (together with 28 Siamese examples and 20 new ones).
From: http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... -argentina

Artillería autopropulsada construída en el Arsenal Esteban de Luca sobre Chasis de tractores (ex-tanques) Crusader 1947-48-el primero lleva un cañón Krupp 75 mm L.30 mod. 1909, los que se notan en segundo plano cañones Bofors 75 mm L.40 mod. 1935-colección George v. Rauch
From: http://www.zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/sho ... .php?t=169

75 K/40 Arg / 75 K/40 A / (7 cm kanon m/40A): This gun based to Krupp design was manufactured by Bofors for Swedish Army and also for export. January of 1940 Finland managed to purchase 8 guns originally ordered by Argentina (the main Export customer for these guns, hence the "Arg" and later just "A" in the name). They were issued to Field Artillery Regiment 21 in Winter War and in Continuation War first to Field Artillery Regiment 16 and later to coastal artillery. Originally the guns were in 75-mm (75 mm x 381 R), but when the Finns run out of their ammunition the guns were modified to 76.2-mm (76.2 mm x 385 R) calibre in July of 1941.
From: http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/ARTILLERY3.htm

A battery of 75mm Bofors Model 1935 field guns was also transferred by Argentina in 1971
From: http://orbat.com/site/history/historica ... -1995.html

gun in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PbeknCE0sw

photo from: http://www.winterwar.com/Weapons/FinArt ... recoil.htm (I have better photos of L/40 in service with Argentina at home - this Finnish example has not original wheels type)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Found them! :D http://www.zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/sho ... .php?t=851
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75k40c.jpg
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Last edited by The Edge on 13 Jun 2008, 10:56, edited 2 times in total.

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