Skoda AA Gun
Re: Skoda AA Gun
Hello Mariano
Good to have you here in this Forum , I am not 100% sure but I think a 8 cm Pl vz 33 aka 7.65 cm Flak 33 (t)
Photo = Ebay.de
Regards Jos
Good to have you here in this Forum , I am not 100% sure but I think a 8 cm Pl vz 33 aka 7.65 cm Flak 33 (t)
Photo = Ebay.de
Regards Jos
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Re: Skoda AA Gun
Thanks jopaerya,
so, the flak 33 (t) was the chzek Skoda mod.1928?
Do you have more info about the flak 33?
rgds
Mariano.
so, the flak 33 (t) was the chzek Skoda mod.1928?
Do you have more info about the flak 33?
rgds
Mariano.
Re: Skoda AA Gun
Hello Mariano
This information is from the book A.A. guns from P. Chamberlain & T. Gander
Calibre - 7.65 cm 3.012 in.
Lenght of piece - ( L/50 ) 3825 mm 150.6 in
Weight in action - 2440.7 kg 5376 lb
Elevation - 0 to 85 degrees
Traverse - 360
M.V. - 808m/s 2650 ft/s
Maximum ceiling - 8388 m 27500 feet
Shell weight 6765 kg 14.9 lb
Rate of Fire - 15- 20 rpm
Manufacturer - Skoda Pilzen
Regards Jos
This information is from the book A.A. guns from P. Chamberlain & T. Gander
Calibre - 7.65 cm 3.012 in.
Lenght of piece - ( L/50 ) 3825 mm 150.6 in
Weight in action - 2440.7 kg 5376 lb
Elevation - 0 to 85 degrees
Traverse - 360
M.V. - 808m/s 2650 ft/s
Maximum ceiling - 8388 m 27500 feet
Shell weight 6765 kg 14.9 lb
Rate of Fire - 15- 20 rpm
Manufacturer - Skoda Pilzen
Regards Jos
Re: Skoda AA Gun
Word of caution - there was no "PL vz.33 Skoda" - Czechoslovak Army had no such gun in its inventory.
However, there was 8-cm (76.5mm) L/50 commercial AA gun. It is sold to Yugoslavia (among others) as "M.1928" model (there was also slightly modified M.28A model, probably bought circa 1933). There is no specific German designation for these Yugoslav versions, so I suspect they were used as "Flak 33(t)" ones.
Data for Yugoslav gun is similar to "vz.33" one, except Yugoslavia used much heavier round: 8.1 kg (Vo 700 m/s). If I remember correctly, 112 guns were bought (80 x M.28 & 32 x M.28A). It is used by Yugoslav Coastal Arty well into the 1960s. One was present at Belgrade Military museum display, but it disappeared in 1990s inexplicably.
However, there was 8-cm (76.5mm) L/50 commercial AA gun. It is sold to Yugoslavia (among others) as "M.1928" model (there was also slightly modified M.28A model, probably bought circa 1933). There is no specific German designation for these Yugoslav versions, so I suspect they were used as "Flak 33(t)" ones.
Data for Yugoslav gun is similar to "vz.33" one, except Yugoslavia used much heavier round: 8.1 kg (Vo 700 m/s). If I remember correctly, 112 guns were bought (80 x M.28 & 32 x M.28A). It is used by Yugoslav Coastal Arty well into the 1960s. One was present at Belgrade Military museum display, but it disappeared in 1990s inexplicably.
Re: Skoda AA Gun
Thanks The Edge
For the correction and the additional information could this photo be the M 28A without the muzzle break ?
Photo = Ebay.de
Regards Jos
For the correction and the additional information could this photo be the M 28A without the muzzle break ?
Photo = Ebay.de
Regards Jos
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Re: Skoda AA Gun
This is the most published photo of some Yugoslav AA gun - unfortunately, I can't confirm it is "M.28A" (but it has some kind of muzzle-brake at the front of the barrel).
Standard Yugoslav brochures always portaits M.28 AA gun with Schneider-type muzzle brake (as used on M.28 field guns & lt. howitzers)
I'll see more in my documentation for tomorrow.
Standard Yugoslav brochures always portaits M.28 AA gun with Schneider-type muzzle brake (as used on M.28 field guns & lt. howitzers)
I'll see more in my documentation for tomorrow.
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Re: Skoda AA Gun
Thank you!
Well, i leave you my web page of Argentinian military history.
www.argentinaoob.com.ar
rgds!
Well, i leave you my web page of Argentinian military history.
www.argentinaoob.com.ar
rgds!
Re: Skoda AA Gun
Thanks for posting the link - I'll examine it and watch for up-dates.purilacorix wrote:Well, i leave you my web page of Argentinian military history.
(First impression - artillery list is too short; for example, no Bofors entries from 1930s - did Argentina used their M.29 AA gun?)
That bellow is Yugoslav Skoda M.28 photo (not the best one) from 1965 Army "Armament Review" booklet.
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Re: Skoda AA Gun
More about 8cm "vz.33" AA gun.
From the list of Czechoslovak armament in 1938 - there is no such gun.
(in 8cm there are old, WWI models, vz.5/8 and vz.14, then "brand-new" vz. 37; nothing between)
Then I found this: http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/32605
(data fits for "vz.33" & last line say there was 96 pieces of this gun in 1938)
Well, this is something that only Czech could solve!
(there is one book mentioned:
Fidler, Jiøí - Sluka, Václav: Encyklopedie branné moci Republiky èeskoslovenské 1920-1938. Praha, Libri 2006.)
Curiousity: Yugoslavia bought Skoda FE field guns (8cm L/40) and EF Lt. howitzers (10cm L/25). Much the same guns were adopted by CS Army as vz.30 models.
Now we have M.28 Yugoslav Skoda AA gun (8cm L/50) and some Czech "vz. 30" with same characteristics.
From the list of Czechoslovak armament in 1938 - there is no such gun.
(in 8cm there are old, WWI models, vz.5/8 and vz.14, then "brand-new" vz. 37; nothing between)
Then I found this: http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/32605
(data fits for "vz.33" & last line say there was 96 pieces of this gun in 1938)
Well, this is something that only Czech could solve!
(there is one book mentioned:
Fidler, Jiøí - Sluka, Václav: Encyklopedie branné moci Republiky èeskoslovenské 1920-1938. Praha, Libri 2006.)
Curiousity: Yugoslavia bought Skoda FE field guns (8cm L/40) and EF Lt. howitzers (10cm L/25). Much the same guns were adopted by CS Army as vz.30 models.
Now we have M.28 Yugoslav Skoda AA gun (8cm L/50) and some Czech "vz. 30" with same characteristics.
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Re: Skoda AA Gun
Hallo all
at first info in http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/32605 is wrong (wrong designation, wrong caliber), just ignore it
But take into account that 8 cm vzor 37 is actually that commercial gun sold to Yugoslavia. As I stated some time before czechoslovak army originally didn't want these guns because of its small caliber for air defence of state (previous standard AAG was 8.35 cm vzor 22) but with large threat from Germany czechoslovak army needed new weapons immediately so it was decided to order these guns before new AAG in right caliber would be available.
There were also another weapon: 7.5 cm vzor 37 intended for air defence of army (ordered but not delivered before Munich treaty).
Regards
at first info in http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/32605 is wrong (wrong designation, wrong caliber), just ignore it
But take into account that 8 cm vzor 37 is actually that commercial gun sold to Yugoslavia. As I stated some time before czechoslovak army originally didn't want these guns because of its small caliber for air defence of state (previous standard AAG was 8.35 cm vzor 22) but with large threat from Germany czechoslovak army needed new weapons immediately so it was decided to order these guns before new AAG in right caliber would be available.
There were also another weapon: 7.5 cm vzor 37 intended for air defence of army (ordered but not delivered before Munich treaty).
Regards
Re: Skoda AA Gun
Pavel,
First, I'm glad to see you at AHF again. Also, I'm glad that "vz. 30" issue is solved.
Second, I was simply repeating your (posted before) objection - there was not a 8cm "vz. 33" AA gun in CS armament.
But (third) one question remains: what the @#&% is "Flak 33(t)" ?! Where the Germans found them?
P.S. I found Yugoslav two vz.14/19 howitzers manufactured in 1938. (One in Belgrade, other in Rio de Janeiro)
Question: Did Skoda produced that model as late as 1938? (I suspect these were made in Poland)
First, I'm glad to see you at AHF again. Also, I'm glad that "vz. 30" issue is solved.
Second, I was simply repeating your (posted before) objection - there was not a 8cm "vz. 33" AA gun in CS armament.
But (third) one question remains: what the @#&% is "Flak 33(t)" ?! Where the Germans found them?
P.S. I found Yugoslav two vz.14/19 howitzers manufactured in 1938. (One in Belgrade, other in Rio de Janeiro)
Question: Did Skoda produced that model as late as 1938? (I suspect these were made in Poland)
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Re: Skoda AA Gun
I didn't have any info that Skoda produced 10 cm vzor 14/19 as late as 1938 but I know that 8 cm vzor 17 was produced in 1938 as a special order for czechoslovak army because 8 cm vzor 30 was intended for army and corps artillery (as 10 cm vzor 30) and divisional artillery had 8 cm vzor 17 (together with 10 cm vzor 14/19 except mountain units) and because there were some shortages of these guns it was decided to order some to have same types of guns in all divisional artillery. It is than possible that also some 10 cm vzor 14/19 were produced for same reason but I don't know that.
Development of new divisional artillery (both calibers) was not ready to army tests in 1938.
During mobilisation number of guns in 7.5 and 7.65 cm reached demanded numbers (4 guns per battery) but numbers of 10 cm and 15 cm were insuffcient so there were only 3 guns in battery for these calibers.
I don't know where Germans take designation Flak 33 (t) may be something as 4.7 cm PaK 36 (t) for mobile gun although czechoslovak designation was 4.7 cm vzor 38.
Development of new divisional artillery (both calibers) was not ready to army tests in 1938.
During mobilisation number of guns in 7.5 and 7.65 cm reached demanded numbers (4 guns per battery) but numbers of 10 cm and 15 cm were insuffcient so there were only 3 guns in battery for these calibers.
I don't know where Germans take designation Flak 33 (t) may be something as 4.7 cm PaK 36 (t) for mobile gun although czechoslovak designation was 4.7 cm vzor 38.
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Re: Skoda AA Gun
Hi again,The Edge wrote:Thanks for posting the link - I'll examine it and watch for up-dates.purilacorix wrote:Well, i leave you my web page of Argentinian military history.
(First impression - artillery list is too short; for example, no Bofors entries from 1930s - did Argentina used their M.29 AA gun?)
That bellow is Yugoslav Skoda M.28 photo (not the best one) from 1965 Army "Armament Review" booklet.
The artillery list is almost complete, Argentina didnt use any Bofors gun for ground artillery. The only Bofors gun bought was the mod.36 AA.
Thank you for the picture, if you give me permission i would post it in my web page.
About the M.28, did Germany used this gun in WW2?
Rgds,
Mariano.
Re: Skoda AA Gun
Don't tell me you missed 200 guns?purilacorix wrote: Argentina didnt use any Bofors gun for ground artillery. The only Bofors gun bought was the mod.36 AA
Argentine Bofors M1935 75mm L40 - 224 were ordered by Argentine of which 200 were delivered before WW2.
The other 24 were taken over by the Swedish government at the start of WW2, 8 went to the Finish army during January 1940, 16 were completed during 1940 and used by the Swedish army (together with 28 Siamese examples and 20 new ones).
From: http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... -argentina
Artillería autopropulsada construída en el Arsenal Esteban de Luca sobre Chasis de tractores (ex-tanques) Crusader 1947-48-el primero lleva un cañón Krupp 75 mm L.30 mod. 1909, los que se notan en segundo plano cañones Bofors 75 mm L.40 mod. 1935-colección George v. Rauch
From: http://www.zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/sho ... .php?t=169
75 K/40 Arg / 75 K/40 A / (7 cm kanon m/40A): This gun based to Krupp design was manufactured by Bofors for Swedish Army and also for export. January of 1940 Finland managed to purchase 8 guns originally ordered by Argentina (the main Export customer for these guns, hence the "Arg" and later just "A" in the name). They were issued to Field Artillery Regiment 21 in Winter War and in Continuation War first to Field Artillery Regiment 16 and later to coastal artillery. Originally the guns were in 75-mm (75 mm x 381 R), but when the Finns run out of their ammunition the guns were modified to 76.2-mm (76.2 mm x 385 R) calibre in July of 1941.
From: http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/ARTILLERY3.htm
A battery of 75mm Bofors Model 1935 field guns was also transferred by Argentina in 1971
From: http://orbat.com/site/history/historica ... -1995.html
gun in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PbeknCE0sw
photo from: http://www.winterwar.com/Weapons/FinArt ... recoil.htm (I have better photos of L/40 in service with Argentina at home - this Finnish example has not original wheels type)
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EDIT: Found them! http://www.zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/sho ... .php?t=851
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Last edited by The Edge on 13 Jun 2008, 10:56, edited 2 times in total.