Greek orders of German a/a guns

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Idomeneas
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Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by Idomeneas » 27 Jun 2008 17:36

Hello everyone,

Before WW II, Greece ordered 20mm, 27mm and 88mm Flaks from Germany.
Even if I know the general number of units orders, I was not able to have exact dates or even the year of orders.
For example I know that there were at least 3 different orders for 88mm Flaks, but not even the year of order.

Is there any German source listing dates of orders, quantity, price of contract, and type on Rheinmetall exports?

SASH155
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Re: Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by SASH155 » 27 Jun 2008 22:43

Did they ever take delivery of the 8.8cm FlaKs? I believe that the "27mm" (sic.) would probably be in fact a 3.7cm FlaK18 or 36.

Idomeneas
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Re: Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by Idomeneas » 28 Jun 2008 11:13

Yes, you are right SASH155, It's a mistake, the correct is 37mm.
About the 88mm Flaks, yes at least 39 units were delivered.

The problem is that I have no information about the orders.

nuyt
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Re: Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by nuyt » 29 Jun 2008 10:38

Hi Idomeneas,

It's interesting to see that Greece for new artillery turned to German industries in the late 30s instead of the French or other. Most of the Greek purchases were with Rheinmetall (20mm, 37mm AA, 37mm AT and some naval guns), though the 88mm would have been produced by Krupp I think. Solothurn guns would also have been sold by Rheinmetall.

I have seen the Turkish orders in the Rheinmetall archives. So they might have the others too.

It would be interesting to find out as either Rheinmetall or Krupp may have been instrumental in modifiying the Greek Krupp 75mm field guns in the late 30s as well. If only we had a picture of a modified Kruppie....

Kind regards,
Nuyt

Idomeneas
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Re: Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by Idomeneas » 29 Jun 2008 15:32

Hi nuyt,

The reason behind the greek orders of antiaicraft from Germany is pure economic. By the time the Hellenic Armed Forces started preparations of the WW II (late 1935), Germany was the only major arms supplier accepting the payment through exchange of greek products (tobacco, ironmetall etc). In contrary to this policy, UK was insisting of payments in UK pounds. Since by 1936 there was a major operational gap in the antiaircraft and antitank defence a series of order were placed to Germany.

You are saying that you have seen the turkish orders in Rheinmetall archives. Are you kind enought to write a list of them (year of order, quantity, type - cost maybe?)?

I know your interest on a photo of a modified Greek Krupp 75mm field gun. As I wrote you in the past, it seems that just a prototype was completed in the Siederius factory in Holland, and there is no indication that this modification was finally adopted by the Hellenic Army. This makes the task hard, but you never know. In any case you will be the first to learn my news in case I find a photo in the future.

Regards,
Idomeneas

nuyt
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by nuyt » 30 Jun 2008 14:52

Hi Idomeneas,

I may have to plan a holiday in greece! There are plenty of museums around Athens, and especillay this one may provide a lead: http://www.army.gr/html/EN_Army/istoria ... ta-en.html

Found here:
http://www.euro-t-guide.com/See_Type/Military_1.htm

I have posted a rough list of Turkish Rheinmetall orders here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... s%2C+1930s

Kind regards,

Nuyt

nuyt
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Re: Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by nuyt » 01 Jul 2008 18:59

Could the field gun at 1 min 43 of this film be a Krupp with boxtrail?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE0tCYIA ... re=related

Idomeneas
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Re: Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by Idomeneas » 01 Jul 2008 19:59

Dear nuyt,

I believe it is not a field but a mountain gun, and to be more specifically a Schneider 75mm (look at the terrain).

I see that you have a special interest in Krupp guns. I don't know if you are interested in the following story:
When in 1906 the Hellenic Army initiated a project for the modernization of the field and mountain artillery, the french Schneider and the german Krupp made their proposals. A field and a mountain gun were presented by each candidate. There was only a difference regarding the mountain gun. Two greek officers provided a solution according to which it was possible to produced a dismantled mountain gun, based on the original plans for a field gun.
Officer Daglis provided his plan to Schneider, while Officer Lykoudis to Krupp. Both companies worked on the plans and they finally presented a prototype to the greek officials in 1907.
The result of this contest was the adoption of the Schneider guns (Schneider Mle 1908 75mm field gun and Scheinder-Daglis Mle 1908 75mm mountain gun).

The interest thing is that the prototype of the Krupp-Lykoudis 75mm mountain gun survived until today. I will try to find a photo and post it for you.

Regards,
Idomeneas

nuyt
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Re: Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by nuyt » 01 Jul 2008 21:11

Thanks Idomeneas,

Looking forward to that picture. Is that weapon at the Artillery museum? And do you know this museum personally?

Kind regards,
Nuyt

Idomeneas
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Re: Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by Idomeneas » 07 Jul 2008 18:01

Dear nuyt,

A friend of mine, leaving in Athens, discovered this weapon based on modifications of Officer Lykoudis.
It is believed that this is the candidate Krupp mountain gun, for the contest of the Hellenic Army in 1908.
It is displayed in the building of the old parliament in the center of Athens, but taking photos is not allowed!!!
Anyway he managed to take just these two photos.


Image
Image

Image


Regards Idomeneas

nuyt
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: Greek orders of German a/a guns

Post by nuyt » 07 Jul 2008 18:42

Fantastic, thank you!
Krupp at the time had at least two standard versions of these small weapons, one L14 calibre (sold to Turkey, Bulgaria and Switzerland) and the other L19,2 calibres, sold to Japan.
The Krupp-Lykoudis looks like the longer version....

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