"7.62 cm PaK 39 (r)"

[jopaerya]

Hello All

According to the Axis History Factbook and many other books there is a 7.62 cm PaK 39 (r)
but I have never found a photo or other original information on this gun who can help me ???
I know the 7.62 cm PaK 36 (r) and the 7.62 cm F.K. 39 (r) or 297 (r) .

Regards Jos

[Erik E]

According to the Axis History Factbook

As far as I remember, that list was based on an article from "Waffen revue" and added with info from the forum many years ago... Problem is if an error is first made, it`s nearly impossible to get rid of, as it spreads all over...
However I agree that it looks like 7.62 cm PaK 39 (r) never exsisted.

Erik E

[Grzesio]

So how was the captured Soviet 76,2 mm divisional gun M1939 (F-22-USW) designated, when equipped with a muzzle brake (I cannot remember if the aiming gears and shield were also modified)? Was it the 7,62 cm FK 39?

Regards

Grzesio

[jopaerya]

Hi

The Soviet 76,2 mm divisional gun M1939 (F-22-USW) was called 7.62 cm F.K. 297 (r)
or 39 (r) so maybe one of the 2 numbers was the one with muzze-break ???

Regards Jos

[Erik E]

In the D97/1 there is actually three different "Geräte" numbers for this gun....
Haven`t checked those abreviations, so I`m not quite sure what they mean:

7.62cm Feldkanone 39 (Kzg)
[Motorized]

7.62cm Feldkanone 39 (Bspg)
[Horse drawn]

7.62cm Feldkanone 39/1 (Sf)
[selbstfahr - self-propelled?]

[jopaerya]

Hello

The first 2 could be something with type of the wheels , the 7.62 cm F.K. 39/1 is new fo me .
Found the list from the Waffen-Revue according to this list the was 1 x 7.62 cm PaK 36 (r)
and more then 1000 7.62 cm PaK 39 (r) ????

The most used picture for the 7.62 cm PaK 39 (r) is a gun that was towed bij a leand-lease jeep
without any soldiers , so it could be even a Russian made muzzle break ??

Regards Jos

[Grzesio]

The Soviet 76,2 mm divisional gun M1939 (F-22-USW) was called 7.62 cm F.K. 297 (r)
or 39 (r) so maybe one of the 2 numbers was the one with muzze-break ???

Yes, it is probably the truth. In a pretty early postwar Soviet manual on German ammunition, 7,62 cm rounds with long case are described as destined for the 7,62 cm AT gun mod. 36 and 7,62 cm field gun mod. 39. So the original Soviet gun was apparently designated as the 7,62 cm FK 297 (r), while the modified gun with enlarged chamber, muzzle brake etc, was designated as the 7,62 cm FK 39. By the way - I think Germans never used the (r) suffix for both the 7,62 cm Pak 36 and 39!

The most used picture for the 7.62 cm PaK 39 (r) is a gun that was towed bij a leand-lease jeep
without any soldiers , so it could be even a Russian made muzzle break ??

Maxim Kolomyets identifies this picture as a German modified gun recaptured by Soviets in the summer of 1944.

Regards

Grzesio

PS Kzg would mean Kraftzuggeschütz.

[jopaerya]

Hello

Thanks for the information , you are correct on the use of the (r) of the PaK 36 .
On the information from Erik there is also no (r) on the F.K. 39
A other question a French friend of my found in a Divisional batterie of a 7.62 cm
F.K. 39 ammunition crate of the 7.62 cm PaK 36 so could the F.K. 39 fire the same
rounds as the PaK 36 ???

Regards Jos

[Grzesio]

Yes, everything leads to this conclusion - e.g. the Soviet manual clearly states, this ammunition was used for both the Pak 36 and FK 39. But a funny thing - ammunition itself, then ammo crates or boxes bear the "7,62 cm Pak 36" description only. The H.Dv. 481/85 deals with the 7,62 cm Pak 36 ammunition only too.

Regards

Grzesio

[mlespaul]

quote from TM-E 30-451 (Handbook on German Military Forces (War Department) 1 March 1945:

page VII-35

i. 3-inch Antitank Gun (7.62 cm Pak 39).

(1) General Description. This 3-inch antitank gun is a modified version of the Russian field gun 7.62 cm F.K. 297 (r). the chamber is bored out, and a 7.62 Pak 36 muzzle brake is fitted. The breech mechanism is semiautomatic with a vertical sliding block. The mount has box-type trails and pneumatic tires.

(2) Characteristics.

Caliber 76.2mm (3 inches)
Length of tube 11 feet 5 inches
Weight in Action 3,360 pounds
Muzzle Velocity 2,230 feet per second
Traverse 57 degrees
Elevation -6 deg to +45 deg
Traction Motor-drawn

(3) Ammunition. This gun fires the same ammunition as the 7.62 Pak 36 (r), but has somewhat lower performance.

[jopaerya]

Hello Mlespaul

I know the TM-E 30-451 (Handbook on German Military Forces (War Department) is a good source ,
but all evidence here presented is from original German sources , I still believe that the "7.62cm Pak 39"
was a called 7.62 cm F.K. 39 and was a bored out and fitted with a muzzle break 7.62 cm F.K. 297 (r).

[Manuferey]

A 7,62 cm FK39 ? From ebay.de

[/URL]

Emmanuel

[Yoozername]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pak39(r).jpg

[Manuferey]

Yoosername,

The picture in wikipedia is the one to which Jos refers earlier: "The most used picture for the 7.62 cm PaK 39 (r) is a gun that was towed by a lend-lease jeep, without any soldiers".

Emmanuel

[Manuferey]

A 7.62 cm FK39 captured from the Germans in North Africa and used by the US Army in 1943. It could then have been towed by a jeep ...

photo ebay



Emmanuel