Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

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Natter
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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#91

Post by Natter » 19 Jan 2014, 00:37

Dili wrote:This means 4 178mm guns at Hierapetra?
There is no other info besides that map in the book.
Dili wrote:So proabably guns from Limnos/Kilkis battleships. Now the question is if they put there by Greeks or Germans.
I believe that part of Crete was under Italian occupation, but still from a list I have this: "HKB 7./520 Hieropetra"?

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#92

Post by Natter » 19 Jan 2014, 00:41

Natter wrote:I believe that part of Crete was under Italian occupation, but still from a list I have this: "HKB 7./520 Hieropetra"?
ref jopaerya on page 3:
7./520: Hieropetra
Bewaffnung: 4-17,8 cm (Beute) (Reichweite 150 hm)


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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#93

Post by V__ » 19 Jan 2014, 12:26

Some interesting pictures of fortifications and gun emplacement in Ierapetra (or Hierapetra as they used to write it sometimes).
http://thefossilmania.blogspot.gr/2012/04/1941.html
Also here: http://www.fortifications.gr/index.php/ ... a-stoixeia it describes the Greek naval fortifications (pre WWII) where the 8 178mm guns removed from Lemnos (as well as most of the other guns from Lemnos) are accounted for (4 in Rio-Antirio, 4 in Fleves island, none in Crete). I'm sure whatever guns where in Ierapetra they placed there by the Italian or the Germans. I don’t know if they came from Kilkis, but it looks very likely.

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#94

Post by Ondrej Filip » 19 Jan 2014, 13:03

V__ wrote:Some interesting pictures of fortifications and gun emplacement in Ierapetra (or Hierapetra as they used to write it sometimes). http://thefossilmania.blogspot.gr/2012/04/1941.html.
I am almost sure they are Italian. The positions are at my map.

By the way, I have finally found the photos of the second 4,7 cm Festungpak 36(t) with preserved embrassure. It has no inner armoured plates (the same embrassure at near location of Agios Galini has both the plates and the ball mount.

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#95

Post by Natter » 19 Jan 2014, 13:30

Ondrej Filip wrote:I am almost sure they are Italian. The positions are at my map.
I agree, they don't look like any german bunkers (I have found more of the same types in the area).

So far I believed that the "border" (if such existed) between german and italian zones on Crete was around the green line on the map (attached). The german designations for the batteries in Spinalonga and Ierapetra suggest it might have been the red line, although that certainly don't match up with the italian remains in and around Ierapetra...

Could it be that the batteries are italian, but designated in the same way as the germans (probably subordinate to the german artillery group)? Or: Could it be that the germans established artillery batteries within the italian area?
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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#96

Post by V__ » 19 Jan 2014, 14:24

The line is probably slightly to the west of the green line, but not by much. And its not a straight line. It was the border between the prefecture of Heralkion (or Iraklio) and Lasithi (wikipedia article on the occupation of Greece probably has the map about right, although I didn’t examine the map in detail to find out if they made any minor mistakes somewhere). There is no question that the guns where in the Italian zone (until 1943). I'm not sure when they were moved, was it before or after the fall of Italy? I guess Beute could mean either that they were former Greek guns, or perhaps Italian which were captured after the Italian surrender. the fate of sunken ships was one of the issues Italy and Germany disagreed over.

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#97

Post by Ondrej Filip » 19 Jan 2014, 14:32

Natter wrote:So far I believed that the "border" (if such existed) between german and italian zones on Crete was around the green line on the map (attached).
According to Wikipedia, the border was more to west, so the Ierapetra was at the Italian zone. The MG bunkers have the typical Italian design, which has been used at the islands. Hard to say more about the battery design. It is an improvised building.
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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#98

Post by Natter » 19 Jan 2014, 14:47

Thanks. Yes, the prefecture-border seems natural of course.

The fortifications.gr site listed a battery 4./520 in Ierapetra from 1942 (no mentioning of Spinolonga, unless this was the namless 3./520).

However, in jopaerya'a list the two batteries in question is designated 6./520 and 7./520 (which might suggest they could have been added to MAA 520 after the fall of Italy?).

Adding the numerous spelling-versions of greek/cretan names it's very confusing. Without access to records from MAA 520 it would be hard to figure this out I guess?
Last edited by Natter on 20 Jan 2014, 05:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#99

Post by Dili » 20 Jan 2014, 05:20

Also here: http://www.fortifications.gr/index.php/ ... a-stoixeia it describes the Greek naval fortifications (pre WWII) where the 8 178mm guns removed from Lemnos (as well as most of the other guns from Lemnos) are accounted for (4 in Rio-Antirio, 4 in Fleves island, none in Crete). I'm sure whatever guns where in Ierapetra they placed there by the Italian or the Germans. I don’t know if they came from Kilkis, but it looks very likely.
Does that page says there were 305/42 at Araxos? with auto translation is unclear.

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#100

Post by V__ » 20 Jan 2014, 12:19

Briefly: 2 twin 305/42 at Araxos, same at cape Scrofa (opposite side) + 4 anti-aircraft batteries of 75 and 47mm (http://www.fortifications.gr/index.php/ ... o-araxthou). In 1943: Marine-Artillerie-Abteilung 617, disbanded October 1944. I haven’t checked the facts myself, I trust he is right.

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#101

Post by Dili » 20 Jan 2014, 21:03

I don't believe he is right. With Aegina 305/42 turrets where Greece will get the 305mm turrets for Araxos?
Kilkis was still with turrets when she was sunk.

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#102

Post by V__ » 21 Jan 2014, 16:19

I believe I have a book somewhere that could answer the question, but unfortunately I don’t have access to it right now, so I cannot tell you the right caliber of the guns.

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#103

Post by Dili » 22 Jan 2014, 05:17

Okay. Do you think you will soon?

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#104

Post by V__ » 22 Jan 2014, 22:17

Perhaps in about 1 month? I dont realy know...

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Re: Batterie Kolimvari on Crete

#105

Post by Dili » 23 Jan 2014, 12:40

Thanks.

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