Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
Sturm78
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by Sturm78 » 15 Dec 2021 21:46

Ondrej Filip wrote
Hi Sturm. It looks like German 15 cm/40 SK L/40. See the Naweapons (Spanish battery at Gran Canaria).
Shultz wrote
your photo shows a part of the south battery of Saseno in Albania. The gun is a 152/40 Armstrong on an "Admiralty Type" naval carriage. The battery was built in the First World War, with 6 guns without shields (later added after the war).
In the 1930s, Albania was in fact an Italian "protectorate".
Ummhhhh....Really the gun and the shield of my image is very similar to that of the Ondrej´s link of Navweapons webpage (15cm SK L40).

I have not found in my archives any image of the Italian 152mm L40 gun that has a shield similar to the one in the image.
I am attaching a photo of an Italian 152mm L40 coastal gun for comparison, although I am not sure if it is the same model of gun

On the other hand it is quite strange that the Germans installed a battery of this type in Albania, after Sept 1943.

You can see the little infrastructure of this battery with an almost non-existent protection with a small frontal earth wall.... 8O

Regards
Sturm78
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shultz
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by shultz » 15 Dec 2021 23:44

Sturm78 wrote:
15 Dec 2021 21:46
Ondrej Filip wrote
Hi Sturm. It looks like German 15 cm/40 SK L/40. See the Naweapons (Spanish battery at Gran Canaria).
Shultz wrote
your photo shows a part of the south battery of Saseno in Albania. The gun is a 152/40 Armstrong on an "Admiralty Type" naval carriage. The battery was built in the First World War, with 6 guns without shields (later added after the war).
In the 1930s, Albania was in fact an Italian "protectorate".
Ummhhhh....Really the gun and the shield of my image is very similar to that of the Ondrej´s link of Navweapons webpage (15cm SK L40).

I have not found in my archives any image of the Italian 152mm L40 gun that has a shield similar to the one in the image.
I am attaching a photo of an Italian 152mm L40 coastal gun for comparison, although I am not sure if it is the same model of gun

On the other hand it is quite strange that the Germans installed a battery of this type in Albania, after Sept 1943.

You can see the little infrastructure of this battery with an almost non-existent protection with a small frontal earth wall.... 8O

Regards
Sturm78
Hi Sturm,
to confirm, I'll give you a snapshot showing a 152/40 "training battery" in the Nettunia (now Nettuno) army polygon near Rome.
batteria da 152-40 a Nettunia.png
I also post two photos of the Saseno battery dating back to the First World War when the guns were without shields (photos taken from the site 14-18.it; the initials MCRR means Central Museum of the Risorgimento, Rome).
152-40 Saseno batt sud 2.PNG
152-40 Saseno batt sud 4.PNG
Best regards, Shultz
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Sturm78
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by Sturm78 » 16 Dec 2021 21:07

Hi shultz,

Your answer has generated several doubts:

First, I think the guns in the Nettuno battery photo are not the same as the gun in my photo taken in Albania. The barrel of the gun in my photo has two steps while the guns of your photo only have one step in their tubes. Nor the shield is the same if one looks closely......

Second, the gun of the images marked with the MCRR watermark, although the photos are of poor quality, they also seem to have only one step on their tubes, which does not seem to match with the barrel in my image, either. They have a large brake / recovery mechanism cylinder on top of the tube, which seems to indeed indicate a 152-40 but I don't know the exact model. It would be the same model as that rail gun of the third image of this post

In conclusion, although all the guns in the photos in this post appear to be 152mm L40 guns, I don't know for sure which model any of them are... :)

The truth is that the issue of coastal / naval guns is sometimes quite confusing..... :roll:

Regrads
Sturm78
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shultz
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by shultz » 17 Dec 2021 18:11

Sturm78 wrote:
16 Dec 2021 21:07
Hi shultz,

Your answer has generated several doubts:

First, I think the guns in the Nettuno battery photo are not the same as the gun in my photo taken in Albania. The barrel of the gun in my photo has two steps while the guns of your photo only have one step in their tubes. Nor the shield is the same if one looks closely......

Second, the gun of the images marked with the MCRR watermark, although the photos are of poor quality, they also seem to have only one step on their tubes, which does not seem to match with the barrel in my image, either. They have a large brake / recovery mechanism cylinder on top of the tube, which seems to indeed indicate a 152-40 but I don't know the exact model. It would be the same model as that rail gun of the third image of this post

In conclusion, although all the guns in the photos in this post appear to be 152mm L40 guns, I don't know for sure which model any of them are... :)

The truth is that the issue of coastal / naval guns is sometimes quite confusing..... :roll:

Regrads
Sturm78
Hi Sturm,
i had previously seen your own photo with the caption "Saseno", and since in Saseno there was actually a battery with the 152/40 I was quite calm.
Today I did a more thorough search, and comparing the photos I saw that the shield matches that of this other photo (especially the strip at the base of the shield):
149-43 K.1914 su incr Bari (ex Pillau) in adriatico 5-41.jpg
it is a 149/43 K. 1914, embarked on the WW1 German cruisers given to Italy in the 1920s.
149/43 K. 1914 was the Italian denomination of the Krupp 15 cm / 45 SK L / 45 gun.
In particular, the Ancona (ex Graudenz) was disbarred in 1937 and the guns reused for coastal defense.
Near Valona (Vlora in albanian) there was indeed a battery with 3 of these guns.
batterie in Albania, da ''Le difese costiere Italiane, di C.A. Clerici''.JPG
For the 152/40, I assure you that it is almost impossible to define them by looking only at the barrel; they have been produced for more than thirty years, in at least four variants and the same barrel could be installed on many different carriages with still different shields.
I'll put you a "collage" that I made for my own use, with the four "basic" types.
152-40 vari.JPG
Best regards, Shultz
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Sturm78
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by Sturm78 » 17 Dec 2021 21:07

shultz wrote
it is a 149/43 K. 1914, embarked on the WW1 German cruisers given to Italy in the 1920s.
149/43 K. 1914 was the Italian denomination of the Krupp 15 cm / 45 SK L / 45 gun.
In particular, the Ancona (ex Graudenz) was disbarred in 1937 and the guns reused for coastal defense.
Near Valona (Vlora in albanian) there was indeed a battery with 3 of these guns.
I think you are right, shultz....I really appreciate your help. I think it was not an easy matter... :wink:

On the other hand, can you help me to identify the exact model of the 152-40 railway gun that I posted yesterdey.
I think it is not an Armstrong Mod.1891 as this model have the recoil7recuperator mechanisms below the barrel...

...and the guns of the battery situated in Nettuno ?

Regards
Sturm78

shultz
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by shultz » 22 Dec 2021 22:50

Sturm78 wrote:
17 Dec 2021 21:07
shultz wrote

On the other hand, can you help me to identify the exact model of the 152-40 railway gun that I posted yesterdey.
I think it is not an Armstrong Mod.1891 as this model have the recoil7recuperator mechanisms below the barrel...

...and the guns of the battery situated in Nettuno ?

Regards
Sturm78
Hi Sturm,
the railway gun is a 152/40 on an "Tipo Ammiragliato" (Admiralty type) carriage; looking at the photo I am attaching below, the barrel should be model A '99 (but model A '91 could also be mounted on this carriage).
This type of rail gun was built after WW1.

This is the original naval gun
affusto tipo Ammiragliato per 152-40.JPG
and this is a photo taken from the a book of Pignato & Cappellano
152-40 railwaygun from a ''Pignato & Cappellano'' book.jpg
Regarding the photo of Nettuno's guns, the photograph do not allow us to define anything ... I had put it only as an example of a different shield shape.

Regards, Shultz
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Sturm78
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by Sturm78 » 24 Dec 2021 09:57

shultz wrote
the railway gun is a 152/40 on an "Tipo Ammiragliato" (Admiralty type) carriage; looking at the photo I am attaching below, the barrel should be model A '99 (but model A '91 could also be mounted on this carriage).
This type of rail gun was built after WW1.

This is the original naval gun
Thanks a lot for your answer, shultz.
How many differents models of barrels existed of the Cannone 152/40 ?

Armstrong Mod.1888
Armstrong Mod.1891
Armstrong Mod.1899
......??
Is this correct ?

And about the carriages ?

Regards
Sturm78

shultz
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by shultz » 24 Dec 2021 15:02

Sturm78 wrote:
24 Dec 2021 09:57
shultz wrote

Thanks a lot for your answer, shultz.
How many differents models of barrels existed of the Cannone 152/40 ?

Armstrong Mod.1888
Armstrong Mod.1891
Armstrong Mod.1899
......??
Is this correct ?

And about the carriages ?

Regards
Sturm78
Hi Sturm,
there are 4 types of barrell (see my post dated 17-12-2021), 3 types of improvised field carriage of WW1, and at least 5 types of naval carriages, each of which could be "da coperta" (deck), "da batteria" (for lateral casemate, on ship) or "sistemazione a terra" (complete naval carriage installed in fortifications).
The shields, both naval and for fortifications, are of the most varied shapes.
As you see, there is a headache to come.

Best regards, Shultz

Sturm78
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by Sturm78 » 26 Dec 2021 17:40

shultz wrote
there are 4 types of barrell (see my post dated 17-12-2021), 3 types of improvised field carriage of WW1, and at least 5 types of naval carriages, each of which could be "da coperta" (deck), "da batteria" (for lateral casemate, on ship) or "sistemazione a terra" (complete naval carriage installed in fortifications).
The shields, both naval and for fortifications, are of the most varied shapes.
As you see, there is a headache to come.
Well, it seems that it is a rather convoluted issue..... :roll: ...as in general almost all matters of coastal / naval artillery are.... :)

Regards
Sturm78

Sturm78
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by Sturm78 » 04 Jan 2022 20:29

Hi all,

Any idea about the gun and / or batterie of this image ?
I guess an 38cm SK C34 or 40.6cm SK C34 gun.....

Image from Getty website
Sturm78
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ludvig
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by ludvig » 05 Jan 2022 11:21

Hello
28 cm SKL/50 in Dreh - Lafette C/37 Grosser Korfürst

ludvig

tristan-gereon
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by tristan-gereon » 05 Jan 2022 18:20

Hi,
any ideas about this gun and its position? The pic is dated 1941.
Thanks and rgards
Oliver
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Sturm78
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by Sturm78 » 05 Jan 2022 20:05

ludvig wrote
28 cm SKL/50 in Dreh - Lafette C/37 Grosser Korfürst
Thank you very much for the answer, ludvig... :wink:

Regards
Sturm78

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AnchorSteam
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by AnchorSteam » 07 Jan 2022 05:43

tristan-gereon wrote:
05 Jan 2022 18:20
Hi,
any ideas about this gun and its position? The pic is dated 1941.
Thanks and rgards
Oliver
Big breach, might be a Naval 24cm gun. Can't tell much from that pic.

ludvig
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Re: Help Id these heavy coastal guns

Post by ludvig » 07 Jan 2022 08:17

Hello
24 cm SKL/40 , notice Rundkeil and Kesselbettung . There is a intersting photo
at BA with code : Bild 1011-110-1664-21 .
Location difficult but only two batteries :
Hamburg from Norderney to Cherbourg
Skagerak from Sylt to Mestersand

ludvig

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