Id. old gun

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
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nuyt
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by nuyt » 06 Mar 2021 21:28

Hi Clive,

Thanks for your reaction!

Yes, have been reading today about the 25pdr's development (on the net and in one of Hogg's books). There is no evidence that it was based on the Rheinmetall or Krupp 9cm gun howitzer, but the concept is strikingly similar.

Vickers being a private player and in active contact with Krupp (they also bought new fuses from Krupp in 1926 during the famous settlement and in the end paid suspiciously little money for the wartime patents), would still not rule out that at least they knew about the concept of the German weapon.

The 25dr's carriage came from the Vickers 4.1 inch howitzer to be precise, that still had a screw breech. There had been several different designs of various calibers and ditto Army demands from the early 20s to the mid 30s. It is also interesting that the Brits were actually thinking in these "continental" calibers of 75 and 105mm :)

As an aside: the postwar Dutch Army knew the 25pdr as the 9 Veld, while the Portuguese called it their 88 :) Later Cockerill of Belgium updated the 25pdr by placing a 105mm barrel on the carriage that decades ago was designed for a 105mm weapon!

Good weekend!

Clive Mortimore
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by Clive Mortimore » 07 Mar 2021 00:37

Hi Nuyt

105mm or 4.1 inch, are both the same, only name differences when trying to sell to your howitzer around the world and your customer doesn't use proper measurements. :D

In 1975 I learnt basic gunnery and gun fitting on a 25pdr when I did my gun fitter course. I then was taught how to maintain and repair the 105mm Pack Howitzer (OTO-Melara Mod 56) and the 105mm gun on the Abbot self propelled gun, preparing me for being attached to an artillery regiment. My first posting after training was to a field workshop which saw me working on Scorpion and Chieftain tanks as well as welding and using a lathe. My next posting was to the British Army's port where the only guns I worked on were a few Centurion AVRE 165mm mortars, a very strange two part breach block with an obturation ring, but mostly fitting and turning or working on landing craft. My last posting was to an artillery regiment, by that time the army had renewed its towed and air portable guns to the L118 105mm light gun. Despite not resembling a 25pdr the 105mm light gun is remarkably similar both gunnery wise and to maintain and repair.
Clive

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Manuferey
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by Manuferey » 07 Mar 2021 10:20

nuyt wrote:
06 Mar 2021 12:51
This one looks more like an infantry or mountain gun. My guess is that it was not developed from the 5cm BAK above, but from the series of Rheinmetall 5cm light field guns, like the 1902 or 1903. The latter was aka Kolonial Geschuetz.
Good point, nuyt !

Emmanuel

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nuyt
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by nuyt » 07 Mar 2021 21:05

Clive Mortimore wrote:
07 Mar 2021 00:37

In 1975 I learnt basic gunnery and gun fitting on a 25pdr when I did my gun fitter course. I then was taught how to maintain and repair the 105mm Pack Howitzer (OTO-Melara Mod 56) and the 105mm gun on the Abbot self propelled gun, preparing me for being attached to an artillery regiment. My first posting after training was to a field workshop which saw me working on Scorpion and Chieftain tanks as well as welding and using a lathe. My next posting was to the British Army's port where the only guns I worked on were a few Centurion AVRE 165mm mortars, a very strange two part breach block with an obturation ring, but mostly fitting and turning or working on landing craft. My last posting was to an artillery regiment, by that time the army had renewed its towed and air portable guns to the L118 105mm light gun. Despite not resembling a 25pdr the 105mm light gun is remarkably similar both gunnery wise and to maintain and repair.
Hi Clive, was the Abbott's gun the same or related to the light gun?
Thanks,

Clive Mortimore
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by Clive Mortimore » 08 Mar 2021 12:02

nuyt wrote:
07 Mar 2021 21:05

Hi Clive, was the Abbott's gun the same or related to the light gun?
Thanks,
Hi Nuyt,

Ballistics wise the Abbots L13 gun and the L118 light gun were very similar as they fired the same ammunition. Physically they are worlds apart, both guns being purpose designed for their intended roles.
Clive

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nuyt
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by nuyt » 09 Mar 2021 16:04

Thanks Clive!

Sturm78
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by Sturm78 » 12 Mar 2021 15:15

Hi all,

Can somebody identify this small artillery piece ?
I think a Schneider mountain gun design, probably...

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nuyt
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by nuyt » 12 Mar 2021 19:39

75mm infantry gun E-L, Schneider indeed, during trials.

ALVF
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by ALVF » 12 Mar 2021 22:30

Hello,

The "75 mm SEL" gun is a 75 mm "Schneider Extra-Léger" developped for french Army programme of "obusiers extra-légers" in 1923-1925 years but was not adopted. The french Navy adopted this gun as a "canon de débarquement" for use by "Compagnies de débarquement".
In "Marine Nationale" the gun is nammed 75 mm SD modèle 1927" (SD = "Schneider Débarquement").
Each heavy cruiser and some other cruisers had one of this gun aboard for use by "Compagnies de débarquement".
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

Sturm78
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by Sturm78 » 13 Mar 2021 20:30

nuyt wrote
75mm infantry gun E-L, Schneider indeed, during trials.
Guy François wrote
The "75 mm SEL" gun is a 75 mm "Schneider Extra-Léger" developped for french Army programme of "obusiers extra-légers" in 1923-1925 years but was not adopted. The french Navy adopted this gun as a "canon de débarquement" for use by "Compagnies de débarquement".
In "Marine Nationale" the gun is nammed 75 mm SD modèle 1927" (SD = "Schneider Débarquement").
Each heavy cruiser and some other cruisers had one of this gun aboard for use by "Compagnies de débarquement".
Thanks a lot for your help, nuyt and Guy François
A very rare gun indeed...

Regards
Sturm78

CharlieC
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by CharlieC » 15 Mar 2021 03:09

The howitzer identified as: 15cm Versuchshaubitze L12 by Krupp was very rare gun. As far as can be determined from post-WW1
sources there were only 4 prototypes constructed. It seems that all 4 were sold to Turkey which was desperately short of heavy
howitzers after the losses of the 1913 Balkan War. (see Ralph Lovett's article on the 15cm howitzer evolution on his website.)
It seems as if 3 of the prototype howitzers were captured in Palestine and sent to Australia - two have survived - one in Jamestown, SA
and in the AWM storage center.

Belgium may have bought some of the Krupp export howitzers - there are a few survivors of these - one in Sweden(I think),
Goulburn, NSW (ex-Ottoman), in Sofia (Bulgarian Military Museum)(ex-Ottoman). There used to be one at Fort Mutzig which I've
heard described as a Belgian gun.

Regards,

Charlie

Sturm78
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by Sturm78 » 29 Mar 2021 22:05

Hi all,

Can somebody identify this gun ?
75mm Mod.1906 Italian gun ? :?

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nuyt
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by nuyt » 30 Mar 2021 21:24

Captured Turkish guns from Greek Army?

Sturm78
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Re: Id. old gun

Post by Sturm78 » 31 Mar 2021 20:07

Well, It is also possibly...

Sturm78

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Re: Id. old gun

Post by Sturm78 » 14 Apr 2021 13:48

Hi all,

Any idea about this gun ?

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