2 cm Flak C30 ??

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ludvig
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by ludvig » 20 Mar 2009 09:22

Hi Jos + Sturm78 ,

J will try a outlay of German 20 mm AA guns :

codes / abbrevations
ST = Solothrun
L = Luftwaffe
MK = Maschinenkanone
MG = Maschinengevaer

a) Luftwaffe " family " group :
The Swiss 2 cm MK ST 28 in Motorlafette ST 29 were approved
by the German Luftwaffe as :
*** 2 cm MG C/30 L in Motorlafette 102 Luftwaffe
( 180 x guns bought for fixed aircraft use , problems with the
external motor ! + heavy weight + cocking . The 180 x
guns were given new fixed grund mounts already in 1938 . You
can see it by the huge 100 x rounds drum magazine UNDER the gun barrel )
Sources : Waffen Revue 55 + 56

b) German Army " family group + ground service of Luftwaffe :
The Swiss 2 cm MK ST 5 was approved as the German Army as :
*** 2 cm Flak 30 later developed as Flak 38

c) German Navy " family group "
The Swiss 2 cm MK ST 52 was approved by the German navy as :
*** 2 cm MG C/30
Sources : Waffen Revue 81 - 82

This is only a short outlay , hope this helps you ???

Regards
ludvig

jopaerya
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by jopaerya » 20 Mar 2009 19:24

Thanks Ludvig

This helps a lot , it make some logic order in the chaos . Also your source is very good .
Only one problem I have seen a few photo's of the 2 cm MG C/30 L in Kriegsmarine use .

Regards Jos

Sturm78
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by Sturm78 » 21 Mar 2009 00:07

Hi all,

According to Ludvig information, I guess that the gun of the first photo of this post on 2-axle platform would be therefore a Rh 2cm MG C30 or Solothurn 2cm MK ST 52.

Regards Sturm78.

Sturm78
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by Sturm78 » 22 Mar 2009 12:15

Hi all,

Can someone help me to identify correctly this 2cm AA light gun in german use? Sounds like a 2cm MG C30 or C38, but this weapon has side cylinders, which are not are not present in the mentioned weapons. :?

Thanks in advance. Regards Sturm78
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ludvig
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by ludvig » 22 Mar 2009 13:52

Hi Sturm 78 ,

Thanks for nice shot ! The German navy seems to use
the following gun / mount combinations :

a) 2 cm MG C/30 in LC/30
b) 2cm Flak 30 in in LC/30
c) 2 cm Flak 38 in in LC/30

The mount is a LC/30 . The gun is not the 2 cm MG C/30 ( long + thin from muzzle
to breech end ) . So it either a 2 cm Flak 30 or Flak 38 . Thank for tip of the side
cylinder only right side . Do you have access to the Gander and Chamberllain ????

Regards
ludvig

ludvig
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by ludvig » 22 Mar 2009 14:09

Hi Sturm 78 ,

Here is a link for you :

http://www.historiecenterbeldringe.dk/d ... anlaeg.htm

scroll down to :
Lillebaelts broen Middlefart - Flakbatterier

then doubleclick at the middel photo :

This is a true 2 cm MG C/30

The photo also appears in Waffen Revue nr 81 page 36 with German text :
Bild H : 2-cm-MG C/30 mit neuem Visier , von rechts

Regards
ludvig

Sturm78
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by Sturm78 » 22 Mar 2009 15:38

Hi Ludvig,

Thank you very much for your link and informations. :D I think that you forget the 2cm MG C38 AA gun light in LC/30 pedestal mount of Kriegsmarine, a development of 2cm MG C30 (and its naval quadruple version: 2cm Flakvierling 35).

Another question: I thought that the Kriegsmarine used only the 2cm MG MG C30 and C38 and that the 2cm Flak 30 and Flak 38 versions were only for the Luftwaffe-Heer. I'm surprised to see a 2cm Flak30-38 on a pedestal mounting of marine use. :?

Image of a 2cm MG C38 in LC/30 pedestal mount (Sorry, I dont remember the source :oops: )

Regards Sturm78
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stril
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by stril » 23 Mar 2009 18:48

Helllo
Perhaps of some use.
Some KM flak guns and mounts of some of them. Bergen, may 45:
M.G 151 cm Laf.dreiachs
2 cm Flak Madsen i.Sockellaf.M40
2 cm D.L M 43 U
2 cm Flak Vierling M 43 U
2 cm Flak Oerlikon i.Sockellaf.
2 cm Flak 30 i.Sockelaf.30
2 cm Dopp.L M 43 U
3,7 cm SK c/30 i 3,7 cm DL.c/30
3,7 cm Flak M42 i 3,7 cm Flak L M 42 U
regards
stril

jopaerya
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by jopaerya » 24 Mar 2009 08:17

Thanks Stril

For the information as you see we have a work to do , I.D.the right gun with the correct lafette .

Regards Jos

Sturm78
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by Sturm78 » 24 Mar 2009 10:20

Hi all,

Some information and images of 2cm MG151/20 AA gun: "By late in the war producton of 2cm Flak38 was no longer able to keep up with demand. Consequently other weapons, including 2cm aircraft cannons, were employed as antiaircraft guns, most often in three-barrel mounts...... The MG151/20 was used on motor torpedo boats, in the home defense, to protect factories, on ralroad trains and on armoured troop carriers SdKfz 251-21". From "German 20mm Flak in WW2" book.

The designation of the her pedestal mount was Fla S1 151 according to this book. I suppose that is the same of the Stril post: "M.G 151 cm Laf.dreiachs" , but I am not sure.

Regards Sturm78
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kriegsmarine221
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 25 Mar 2009 05:02

thats a lot of trouble to set up that turret. wonder it it was worth it. they should have just got 3 guns on a rack with a pintle mount.

jopaerya
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Location: middelburg

Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by jopaerya » 25 Mar 2009 08:20

Here a high tech solution for the transport of a 2cm MG151/20 AA gun

Photo = Ebay.USA
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kriegsmarine221
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 25 Mar 2009 08:39

this is a even more high tech solution.
Image

Sturm78
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Location: Spain

Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by Sturm78 » 25 Mar 2009 10:09

Thanks for your nice photos, Jopaerya and kriegsmarine221

Have anyone more information and pictures about 2 cm D.L M 43 U, 2 cm FlakVierling M 43 U and 2 cm Dopp.L M 43 U AA guns cited by Stril?
I suppose that the "U" will be U-Boots: Naval mountings for subs, no??

Regarding 2cm Flak 30 i.Sockelaf.30 also cited by Stril, I think it will be the gun of my picture posted on 22 Mar 2009, according to Ludvig.

About 2cm Flak Madsen i.Sockellaf.M40, I supposed that this weapon will be 20mm Madsen Model 1933 in german pedestal mount, but I have not seen pictures of this gun in service with the Germans nor I have more information.
Was this weapon manufactured under the German occupation of Denmark?

Regards Sturm78

ludvig
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by ludvig » 25 Mar 2009 16:45

Hi Sturm78 ,

Short replay to your qustions :
a) yes , the U = uboot = submarine installions
** 3,7 cm Flak 42 sources :
- Müller
- Waffen - Arsenal S -52
- Marine- Arsenal Sonderheft Band 18
- Waffen - Revue nr 106 - 107
- U- 505 in Chicago
** 3,7 cm Flak 43 sources :
- good question , seen little photos of naval use , anybody who
can help ???
b) yes , your photo with German text " ---- Torpedoboots T7 "
with 41.06 Kib posted by Sturm78 on March 22 is taken from the Marine -
Arsenal , Sonderheft Band 18 page 5 . This photo clearly
shows a 2 cm Flak 38 in Sockellafette LC/30 . You can see
on it the muzzle reducer .
c) 2 cm Madsen in Sockellafette M40 . Jos have publised a very
good drawing of it in the tread " Danish Flak " The 2 cm Madsen
seems to be used only on main naval coastal artillery batteries + some
main radar stations . Danish production ??? Perhaps some of
the Danish readers have more info ???
Regards
ludvig

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