2 cm Flak C30 ??

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ludvig
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by ludvig » 25 Mar 2009 17:01

Hi Sturm78 ,

Here is a Danish link :

http://www.navalhistory.dk/English/Weap ... 0mmM41.htm

Regards
ludvig

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stril
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by stril » 26 Mar 2009 11:54

Hello
The 2 cm Madsen was also used at the KM flakbatteries the first years. I dont have the papers at hand, but mentioned in reports from Flakgruko Bergen was "3 legs", perhaps used as the picture added(from ebay)
Also added a picture bought earlier, nice details.
regards
stril

ludvig
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by ludvig » 26 Mar 2009 14:01

Hello Stril ,

* Thank you for your list of KM weapons in May 1945

* J have not seen picture of 20 mm Madsen Army version before ,
belive that KM used the 2 cm Madsen naval M/40 and M/41.

*Good and clear shot of a German 20 mm AA gun . Thanks .
Notice the black " Sturm-78cylinder " to the right of mount
( seen in the firing direction ) . My interpretion is that Strils
gun is a 20 mm Flak 38 in Sockellefette LC/30 .

Regards
ludvig

Sturm78
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by Sturm78 » 26 Mar 2009 17:49

Hi all,

So one mystery solved. :D Stril photo seems to prove that the weapons with the side cylinder are 2cm Flak30-38 on Sockellefette LC/30.

Only one question: Why the Kriegsmarine used the 2cm Flak30-38 on pedestal mounts if they already had the 2cm Flak MG C/30-38?

Regards Sturm78.

tommy303
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by tommy303 » 26 Mar 2009 19:53

Same gun, just one has an army designation and the other is a naval designation--2cm Flak MG C/30 or C/38 is naval, wile 2cm Flak 30 or 38 is army

Sturm78
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by Sturm78 » 26 Mar 2009 21:22

Hi tommy303,

Are you sure that is exactly the same gun? According to Ludvig is not the same gun: see his post of 22 Mar 2009.
According a my sources the 2cm Flak30 is a development of 2cm Flak MG C/30, but they are not exactly the same gun, but..... :?

Regards Sturm78.

tommy303
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by tommy303 » 27 Mar 2009 03:34

The naval Flak MG C/30 and the Luftwaffe/Heer Flak 30 were basically the same gun and most components of the receiver, bolt, etc would interchange. The naval 2cm MG C/30 entered service first, as it had been designed and built to a Reichsmarine specification. The Heer adopted the weapon a few years later. The design itself had been developed and tested by the Rheinmetal-owned, Swiss Solothurn works to circumvent the Versailles Treaty, after which production for the Reichsmarine commenced in Germany. During production there were minor changes to improve mass production, barrel cooling, and various flash suppressors, etc., but these changes were common to both the naval and land service versions to such an extent that mid- and late-production versions were difficult to tell apart without seeing the Heeres or Kriegsmarine Waffenamts. To be sure there were visual differences between early and late production, but insufficient to cause a change in model designation--the Germans not following US practice of assigning an A# or the British practice of Mk numerals and stars to indicate modifications to the original design. Early production was almost entirely for the Reichsmarine and so there were some visual differences between these and the ones produced a year or two later for the Army (and for the Kriegsmarine as well), but the designation of the actual gun itself was not affected.

Where the Germans did take the bit between their teeth was in the design and designation of the mounting, rather than the basic gun itself, and it was usual to give each mounting its own designation. There were naturally wide differences in the naval and land mountings (and different versions of each), and how the receiver was attached to the trunnions of the various Lafetten.

Only when the Luftwaffe issued a new specification calling for an increased rate of fire was a new designation called for, in this case the Army/Luftwaffe Flak38 and the Naval Flak MG C/38. It was still the same basic Rheinmetall-Borsig weapon as its predecessor, but with new components and a strengthened receiver, and larger magazine. Modification to the original design to produce the Flak 38 was undertaken by Mauser as Rheinmetall was otherwise fully occupied by other projects.

During the early years of the war both the Flak 30 and Flak 38 served alongside eachother in all services, but was increasing relegated to second line service by 1941.

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stril
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by stril » 27 Mar 2009 09:17

Hello
Added a list from "Leichte Flakwaffen in raume Norwegen(Küste), from 1941/42
28 X 4 cm Flak 28
2 X 3,7 cm MK
6 X 3,7 cm SK C/30
96 X 2 cm Flak 30
64 X 2 cm Flak 38
29 X 2 cm Oerlikon
276 X 2 cm Madsen
regards
stril

Sturm78
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by Sturm78 » 13 Apr 2009 09:42

Hi all,

I found in Ebay another photo of 2cm Flak30-38 on Sockellefette LC/30 with side cylinder onboard of Admiral Scheer battleship.

Regards Sturm78.
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stril
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by stril » 16 Apr 2009 12:49

Added another photo with some details. On a R-boat, most likely in the Adriatic sea.
regards
stril

Sturm78
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by Sturm78 » 22 Apr 2009 12:05

Hi all,

I found this picture on Ebay. The picture belonged to a series of images of F.LB. boats taken in the Netherlands.
See http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=150531

I suppose that this AA gun should be mounted in one of these boats. Can anyone identify the gun? and the mount with strange shield?
I think it could be a 2cm MG151 but I am not too sure.

Regards Sturm78.
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jopaerya
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by jopaerya » 22 Apr 2009 14:11

You are right the gun is a 2 cm 151/20 , I think the shield is local made .

Regards Jos

kriegsmarine221
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 23 Apr 2009 10:16

i wonder what aircraft this mg-151 would be mounted in, i think its a ju-52 due to the insides of the fuselage because it looks like what you would find in a paratroopers aircraft.


Image

jopaerya
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by jopaerya » 23 Apr 2009 10:55

Hello

This 2 cm M.G.151/20 was mounted post-war in a French naval helicopter Sikorsky H-34 .

Regards Jos

ROLAND1369
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Re: 2cm Flak C30 ??

Post by ROLAND1369 » 23 Apr 2009 13:20

Good call on the gun Jos. But iit is mounted in ht e door of an H-21 Helio not an H-34.

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