Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

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SES
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Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#1

Post by SES » 02 Feb 2009, 15:37

Hi,
Can anyone identify the system found in the last eight minutes of this video
http://freenet-homepage.de/onlive/karlshagen.swf
and depicted below.
A system mounted on a Flak 30 tri-pod, an operators cabin with a range finder and two rocket launch baskets.
bregds
SES
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Flakabwehrwerfer (Medium).jpg
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Grzesio
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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#2

Post by Grzesio » 02 Feb 2009, 17:56

I've seen a picture of this launcher identified as the Maikäfer 31 cm AA rocket.

Regards

Grzesio


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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#3

Post by jopaerya » 02 Feb 2009, 18:04

Hello SES

That a interesting device realy rocket-science , if this rocket explodes in a "box" of bombers it will makes a lot of damage .

Regards Jos

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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#4

Post by SES » 02 Feb 2009, 19:15

Hi,
Thank you friends.
Judging from the photo 31 cm does not seem to far off with a weight of 100 -150 kg. But Maikäfer 31 cm Rakete is not a very well known system on the net.

Yes Jos if it explodes within a standard bomber box it would take out more than one bomber, question is if it could reach their altitude.

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SES

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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#5

Post by Grzesio » 02 Feb 2009, 20:46

No, it couldn't. According to Hahn - what's literally quoted on the Internet - the rocket had just 2950 m range. As one can see in the video, it has a time fuze with some 4 s delay. I believe it was conceived - at least in the version filmed - as a close range AA weapon with huge blast effect.
As we can see - and if it is Maikäfer indeed ;) - the engine burns 24 kg of fuel in approx 1 s, so producing some 44 kN of thrust, what gives (theoretically and in vacuum) acceleration of ~300 m/s^2 for a rocket with 146 kg medium weight. Thus we can assume, Maikäfer's combat (detonation) range was approx. 1 km. :D

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Grzesio
Last edited by Grzesio on 03 Feb 2009, 20:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#6

Post by SES » 02 Feb 2009, 22:03

Under those circumstances it would of course be effective against low lever fighter bomber attacks, but so would a 2 cm Vierling.
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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#7

Post by kstdk » 02 Feb 2009, 23:50

Hello Grzesio

You say:
Grzesio wrote:According to Hahn - what's literally quoted on the Internet - the rocket had just 2950 m range.
RegardsGrzesio
Could you give a link to that statement? Where on the internet? I also had the thought - "Tiefflieger" for the operational use of this "thingy" :)
I don not think it could reach the bomberformations, but could be effective against low level airplanes as SES are saying. Do we have a timeframe for about / ca. time for this film - meaning 1943 - 44 - 45 ? Could it be a test performed at the Flakartillerie Schule Wustrow / Rerik?
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Kurt - kstdk

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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#8

Post by Grzesio » 03 Feb 2009, 11:55

Here (but I made a slight mistake - the range is given as 2940 m):
Beim Versuch, Wurfkörper noch einfacher zu verschießen, hat man 1943 beim Projekt Maikäfer einen 31-cm-Wurfkörper entwickelt. Dieser wog 158 kg und konnte aus einer einfachen Rinne verschossen werden. Bei einer maximalen Geschwindigkeit von 170 m/s wurde eine Reichweite von 2.940 m erreicht. Da diese Reichweite zu gering war, wurde das Projekt wieder eingestellt.
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... werfer.htm
It's retyped from Hahn's "Waffen und Geheimwaffen des deuschen Heeres".
But the velocity is much smaller from my theoretical calculation - and so our combat range for 4 s delay shrinks to some 500-550 m.

It's hard to tell, when this particular weapon was filmed - other rockets are shown in Peenemuende / Greifswalder Oie. The Wasserfall and Hs 117 are filmed not sooner than first half of 1944.

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Grzesio

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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#9

Post by kstdk » 03 Feb 2009, 12:47

Hello Grzesio
Thanks for the link :) Not too many chances for finding any more about this project then? Project Maikäfer - was´nt that also the name for the V1 project?
Regards
Kurt - kstdk

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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#10

Post by Temistocle » 15 Sep 2018, 23:58

Hi,
I know this is a very old thread, but this video is interesting: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4rovsn
Bye

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#11

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 16 Sep 2018, 20:03

Temistocle wrote:
15 Sep 2018, 23:58
Hi,
I know this is a very old thread, but this video is interesting: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4rovsn
Bye
Thanks for sharing this interesting video :milsmile:
It looks that thelauncher had it's own rangefinder under armour :idea:

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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#12

Post by Grzesio » 17 Sep 2018, 10:07

It looks that thelauncher had it's own rangefinder under armour
Obviously :D - and this gives certain clues for its identity... AA launcher with armoured cab for the layer, equipped with a rangefinder and launching heavy rockets of approx 30 cm calibre. If it was a self propelled, 4 shot one - we'd have a perfect match.

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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#13

Post by Grzesio » 18 Sep 2018, 10:34

I was recently wondering about the Maikaefer data given by Hahn, as it was not obvious for me if the 24 kg "Triebwerk" refers to the complete engine weight or just the fuel weight (as I encountered a number of times, the fuel weight was given as Triebwerk weight).
Rough calculations show, 24 kg of fuel should accelerate a 158 kg rocket to some 290-300 m/s, so 24 kg is clearly not the fuel weight. On the other hand, approx. 14.5 kg of fuel is needed to accelerate a 158 kg heavy rocket to 170 m/s, and in this case 24 kg weight of a complete spin stabilized engine seems a little bit too low. But who knows, maybe it's just the way, the weight was calculated...

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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#14

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 18 Sep 2018, 10:42

I just wish to see drawings of this wonder-weapon :?

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Re: Unknown Flakabwehrwerfer

#15

Post by Grzesio » 18 Sep 2018, 11:00

I've never seen any drawings. I just wonder, if the well known rocket armed Pz.Kpfw. IV doesn't have something in common with this weapon...
Probably not, as its elevation range seems far too limited for an AA weapon, but allegedly self propelled, tank mounted AA launchers were built and tested indeed and 28 cm Wk Spr rockets were used during development of this weapon. That's a puzzle...

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