I need help to Id mortar

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
SASH155
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by SASH155 » 04 Apr 2011 15:17

This is just a guess, but I suspect it may be an ex-Yugoslav 81mm M-1931 (their close copy of the Brandt mle. 1927/31). The reinforcement of the bipod legs interface with the elevation screw assembly seems pretty distinctive on this example.

Sturm78
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by Sturm78 » 07 Apr 2011 11:43

Thank you for your answer, SASH155.

Does you have another image of a Yugoslav 81mm M1931 mortar to compare?

Regards Sturm78

SASH155
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by SASH155 » 07 Apr 2011 16:02

No, but there is a photo in some Jane's Infantry Weapons editions (I confess that it is not a close match). The other possibility (and I am leaning more in this direction) is the Czech vz. 36 81mm mortar; the form of the bipod interface with the elevation screw assembly is a close match to the one in this photo, also check out the machining on the muzzle. There is a good photo of this weapon in the recent work on Czech artillery entitled "Delestrvo etc...: can't remember full title, it's in Czech.

jopaerya
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by jopaerya » 07 Apr 2011 16:22

Hello

I don't know if this is a 8 cm mortar , but this photo is from the book "Ceskoslovense delostrelectvo"

Regards Jos
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SASH155
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by SASH155 » 07 Apr 2011 21:44

Yes, that's it, now compare it with the other photo, especially the bipod/elevation screw construction, it seems fairly unique. BTW I also compared with photos of the Danish, Dutch and Italian versions of the 81mm Brandt mle. 1927/31, but they are not a match.

Sturm78
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by Sturm78 » 08 Apr 2011 22:18

i all,

Here, another image of the same mortar. It is difficult enssure 100% 81mm Vz36 Czech mortar. It is very similar but the reinforcement of the bipod legs interface do not seems match. :?

Image from Ebay
Sturm78
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SASH155
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by SASH155 » 08 Apr 2011 23:26

I agree, but the angle of the photo in "Ceskoslovense delostrelectvo"
may simply be the problem. Note the distinctive way the triangular web like plate just below the elevation crank assembly fits into narrow slots in the flat section tops of the bipod legs in both examples (you can see this plate on both weapons, it is the piece which has the two small holes, which you can just make out barely in the side view). This must mean the bipod legs could be unlocked and folded upwards and away from the elevation screw assembly. Also, look at the interfaces/sockets where the lower bipod legs telescope into the upper parts. Also, take a look at the elevation crank and then check out the design of the baseplate, a very nearly, if not a direct match in both photos. The machining of the muzzle, however, is a little different, with a groove in the example in use by the Germans. This last difference may not be all that significant.

Sturm78
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by Sturm78 » 09 Apr 2011 07:55

Probably you are right, SASH155

Regards Sturm78

Clive Mortimore
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by Clive Mortimore » 09 Apr 2011 12:19

I have been following the post regarding the photos of the mortar that Strum has provided. The uniforms of the troops are from the early days of the Wehrmacht. Could the weapon in the photos be a prototype for the 8 cm GrW 34? The reason I ask this is that the uniform worn by the time of the Germans acquired the Czech army equipment had been "updated".
Clive

SASH155
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by SASH155 » 09 Apr 2011 14:27

If it was an occupation unit they would not necessarily have received the latest in German uniform, as this stuff was generally prioritized for the frontline units, and if these guys are Slovaks or Czech volunteers (which I doubt) then they probably got alot of hand me downs; there are many photos of German troops taken as late as 1942 still wearing items like the old M-1916 Stahlhelm etc... The peaked caps these men are wearing are probably of an old 1920s Reichswehr pattern (does anyone here know the model?), but the tunics look like the new 1934/1935 Wehrmacht pattern. Also, the Germans no doubt seized some Czech equipment as early as September 1938 at the time of the Sudeten crisis when they occupied that part of Czechoslovakia. BTW: the Mauser rifles in the photo are probably Brno vz. 24s.

Bill 13
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by Bill 13 » 12 Apr 2011 03:43

Good Day
Will not help with the Mortar ID, but.....
Checking through Cardona/Sanchez's Deutsche Heersuniformen und Ausrüstung.
On page 46 are Blouses that resemble the ones in the Mortar picture in question.
Photo in book is captioned
"Diese Mannschaftsdienstgrade tragen allesamt abgeänderte Blusen des österreichischen
Bundesheeres"
So it is possible that the men in the Mortar photo are Austrians.
Bill

Clive Mortimore
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by Clive Mortimore » 12 Apr 2011 08:17

Bill 13 wrote:Good Day
Will not help with the Mortar ID, but.....
Checking through Cardona/Sanchez's Deutsche Heersuniformen und Ausrüstung.
On page 46 are Blouses that resemble the ones in the Mortar picture in question.
Photo in book is captioned
"Diese Mannschaftsdienstgrade tragen allesamt abgeänderte Blusen des österreichischen
Bundesheeres"
So it is possible that the men in the Mortar photo are Austrians.
Bill
And may be the mortar as well?
Clive

SASH155
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by SASH155 » 12 Apr 2011 14:47

I could be mistaken I think the Austrian version of the Brandt mle. 1927/31 was more or less a direct copy built by Böhler. BTW: does anyone have photos of Hungarian or Romanian mortars?

Sturm78
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by Sturm78 » 08 May 2011 22:22

Hi all,

A third image of this mysterious mortar:

Image from Ebay
Sturm78
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Clive Mortimore
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Re: I need help to Id mortar

Post by Clive Mortimore » 08 May 2011 22:58

Have we excluded the 10 cm nebelwerfer 35? To me the barrel looks to long for a typical Stokes-Brandt 81mm mortar. Plus the sights and traversing handwheel look similar to those of the 10 cm nebelwefer 35. http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... rfer35.htm
Clive

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