panzerschreck 10,5

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poky
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panzerschreck 10,5

Post by poky » 10 Jul 2009 17:14

hi guys
Can someone help with more info on a 105mm version of the panzerschreck, there is a short text on it on http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/p ... schreck105
are there any pictures of the weapon and ammo

thanks and greetings
Patrick

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kstdk
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Re: panzerschreck 10,5

Post by kstdk » 10 Jul 2009 18:45

Hello

Some here - Picture from this site:

http://www.greyfalcon.us/Weapons.htm

Regards
Kurt
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Alanmccoubrey
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Re: panzerschreck 10,5

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 10 Jul 2009 19:00

There is some detail about it in T. J. Gander's "Field Rocket Equipment of the German Army" (1972).

"The new equipment was the 10.5cm 'Panzertot', other names used were 'Hammer' and P'Panzerschreck-kanone'. It was a three man load and used two small wheels for towing. The rocket grenade used was an 8cm projectile fitted with a discarding sabot. Round the rocket's fin was the propellant which vented between the shaped end of the tail shaft and the restricted end of the firing tube."

It also appears in "Small Arms, \artillery and Special Weapons of the Third Reich" by Gander and Chamberlain (1978) which identifies the round as the 8cm PAW 8H62.

Both are of course very old so there might well be more information available .

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Grzesio
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Re: panzerschreck 10,5

Post by Grzesio » 10 Jul 2009 21:55

Alanmccoubrey, Panzerschreck 10,5 cm and Panzertod aka Hammer were two different weapons working with different principles.
Panzerschreck 10,5 cm was simply an enlarged version of the 8,8 RPzB 54, launching a conventional rocket projectile (there was an idea to use the warhead of the Panzerfaust 150 m to simplify production).
Panzertod was a fairly specific weapon using a rocket projectile with external propellant charge, while the combustion chamber was formed by the space between the projectile's shaft and the launcher tube; late version had also a small conventional powder charge in a stubby case. The drawback was, the tube had to withstand significant gas pressure during firing, i.e. it had to be pretty heavy. The 10,5 cm launcher weighted 45 kg (three times more than the Panzerschreck 10,5 cm) and could sent a 3.2-3.5 kg projectile to 500 m distance, the penetration is given in 140-220 mm range by different authors.
The picture posted by kstdk is a little bit mysterious - it may show the Panzerschreck 10,5 cm, it may show the Panzertod... Or something else. But it's identified as the Panzertod most often.

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Grzesio

poky
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Re: panzerschreck 10,5

Post by poky » 12 Jul 2009 11:57

thanks for the picture Kurt

Alan thanks for the info

Grzesio the panzertodt, if I understand it correctly it work more like the pupchen then like the panzerschrek

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Grzesio
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Re: panzerschreck 10,5

Post by Grzesio » 13 Jul 2009 13:36

Not neccessarily so. ;)
Pueppchen was in fact a mixture of a rocket launcher and a conventional gun - it launched a rocket projectile from a smoothbore barrel closed with a breech, the projectile was propelled both by rocket thrust and gas pessure in the closed barrel space. The Pueppchen was not recoilless.
The Panzertod was in turn a recoilless weapon. I'd say it was something in between the Panzerschreck and the Panzerfaust - it launched a projectile from an open barrel, the projectile being propelled originally by the gas pressure and rocket thrust. The additional powder charge was fairly small - 60 g of nitrocellulose powder (while e.g. Panzerfaust 100 m had 95 g of blackpowder for a 20% lighter projectile), I think one of it's purposes was to increase initial pressure in the barrel to provide better conditions for rocket fuel ignition.

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Grzesio

poky
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Re: panzerschreck 10,5

Post by poky » 13 Jul 2009 21:03

thanks Grzesio for clearing it up for me

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kfbr392
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Re: panzerschreck 10,5

Post by kfbr392 » 08 Feb 2011 14:53

kstdk wrote:Some here - Picture from this site:

http://www.greyfalcon.us/Weapons.htm
It seems the above picture was taken before the fall of 1944 and shows the first version of the Panzertod with the 2200mm launch barrel, designed in the winter of 1943/44.
The final version, of which there seems to be no photo anywhere on the web or in books (only sketch drawings), had a 1365mm launch tube.
Unless the soldiers here are midgets, it cannot be the final "Hammer" (also the proportions would not fit).

Lexikon der Wehrmacht (as usual channelling Fritz Hahn) says:
Eine weitere Entwicklung in dieser Gruppe war der »Hammer«, eine Waffe, die zwischen dem Panzerschreck und den Panzerwurfkanonen einzuordnen ist. Diese Entwicklung entstand eigentlich aus der Forderung, die Reichweite des Panzerschrecks von 200 m auf 500 m zu steigern. Rheinmetall entschied sich hier für das System der kammerlosen Kanone, dabei ist die Treibladung um den Schaft der Wurfgranate angeordnet. Aus dem 2200 mm langen Rohr wurde die etwas geänderte Werfergranate 5071 von 81,4-mm-Kaliber verschossen, die bereits bei der PWK Verwendung fand. Diese im Oktober 1943 begonnene Entwicklung wurde aber Anfang 1944 gestoppt; für die geforderte Trefferlage hätte man die Wirkungsentfernung auf 300 m kürzen müssen.

Im Dezember 1944 wurde dieses Projekt jedoch wieder aufgegriffen, dieses Mal mit einem auf 105 mm vergrößerten Kaliber, bei dem die 725 mm lange Wurfgranate außer der Ringladung am Schaft noch eine Zusatzladung am Heck trug - die Waffe wurde aber zu schwer. Man entschied sich nun für eine Treibspiegel-Granate, bei der einfach die alte Werfergranate zusätzlich mit passenden Scheiben von 10,5 cm versehen wurden. Das Granatgewicht stieg nun auf 4,2 kg, und mit einer Schaftladung von 1,2 kg wurde eine v0 von 540 m/Sek. erreicht; das resultierte in einer Kampfentfernung von 500 m, bei der 160 mm durchschlagen wurden.

Die Treffgenauigkeit war für diese Entfernung erstaunlich - 50 Prozent der Treffer lagen in einem Quadrat von 1 m Kantenlänge. Das Waffengewicht mit einer kleinen Zweiradlafette betrug 45 kg, die Rohrlänge hatte man aus Gründen der Gewichtseinsparung auf 1.365 mm verkürzt. Die Feuerhöhe, d. h. die Höhe der Rohrachse über dem Boden, war mit 350 mm extrem niedrig. Von der in drei Teile zerlegbaren Waffe, die noch den Suggestivnamen »Panzertod« erhielt, befanden sich bei Kriegsende aber nur zwei Muster in der Erprobung.
source: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... onen-R.htm
(bold letters by this poster)

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Manuferey
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Re: panzerschreck 10,5

Post by Manuferey » 08 Feb 2011 23:37

Compare with the unit on wheel here and first posted here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=165363

Image

Emmanuel

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