38 cm Siegfried Kanone (E)

[jopaerya]

Please see the first page of this Topic , the E 698 with 2 x 38 cm Kanone (E) were planned in Pas de Calais early 1944,
but they were placed in 1944 in the Südwall near Marignane before the invasion in Southern France. During the retreat
the railwaygun Gneisenau was lost near Montélimar.

[EPOCH3]

Hi, my archives is on the technical side and I have very little regarding locations, composition and movements etc. What interested me was not so much as E 698 but rather finding out more of what the notes on the map regarding 686 and 679 meant as it related to Siegfried.

The map shows what looks like 686 having two 38cm Siegfried guns - the other documents I have indicate that it only had 28cm guns and now with the Eisenbahnartillerie-Einheiten document above (thank you much) it now can be said that E 686 did in fact have 1 Siegfried as of May 5, 1945 (and 3 K5(E)s). That accurately accounts for a gun #3 well after #1 and #2 were destroyed in the West (probably the one at Rügenwalde on map). It doesn't corroborate however that 686 ever had the two 38cm guns as noted on the map.

I am mainly looking to determine if there really ever was a fourth 38cm gun and what the third gun might have been used for. I have some data suggesting that there were plans to mount a 40.6cm gun to a Siegfried carriage and if gun #3 was at Rügenwalde perhaps it was there to support some testing of those "paper plans" at some time (and also maybe why the photos of gun #3 do not have a barrel mounted). Now, seeing gun #3 assigned to E 686 to me means it had probably been completed and made operational - so my idea of a 40.6cm test bed probably disappears.

Aside from that, I am confused as to the note on the map indicating there was a unit 679 since I can not find a 679 on the Order of Battle dated 1944 that contains the Sept 1944 map or in the Eisenbahnartillerie-Einheiten document dated May 1945. Hope that makes some sense.

Thanks much and regards
Greg

[schwarzermai]

Greg, about 679

is not a battery, it's s staff unit created in 1939 for Eisenbahnartillerie

Stab schwere Artillerie-Abteilung (mot.) z.b.V. 679
Stab Eisenbahn-Artillerie-Abteilung (mot.) z.b.V. 679

--

the map is a mixed one and shows "Ist" and "plan" - for example: there is 701 listed but this battery was already disbanded - 701 were re-created at the end of 1944
other units were in unknown status at this time ....

----

about the 4th Siegfried: at this stime still in manufacturing - please see this from Nov. 3th 1944



Uwe

[EPOCH3]

Thanks Uwe for your explanation that the map is a mixture of both "is" and "planned" - now things make much more sense.
I understood that 679 was a staff unit level designation but didn't have anything showing that I was real. It makes sense now that the batterie information contained under 679 was only planned. So, E-686 was planning to have 2 guns in future.

Thanks again.

[EPOCH3]

Also -do you have any additional information about the fourth gun after Nov 1944? I am going through quite a bit of Krupp Essen material at present researching production related items.

Interesting datapoint: The building where the railway guns were actually assembled/built was one of the few buildings to have survived the war. It was used commercially up to just last year I think and was just demolished a couple of months ago.

Regards

[jopaerya]

Same railway station as in post 13 , Regards Jos

Photo's from Ebay

[JABIER]

Hi,
Another railway gun in the same station.
Regards,

[jopaerya]

Thanks Jabier

One of the 27.4 cm (f) guns of the Batterie (E) 692 .

Regards Jos

[jopaerya]

A destroyed 38 cm Kanone (E) in southern France, according to the photo caption the Gneisenau gun at the Lelogis Neuf area.
NARA / US Signal Corps

[vtt13]

Some finding about the E698 eisenbahn-batterie, located at Marignane, 20 km north of Marseille.


By looking carefully at the 1943 map, it is possible to decipher “Eisb. Art. ??? 698”, WN18, 10 km south of the guns location. The position is not reported in the 25.VII.1944 map. There is no railways line and we are at the top of a hill.





At this second location, there is:

One observation post with a good sight :









Two troop shelters:






Several trenches and fox-holes:





I imagine that this second position was the “eyes” of the battery. Do you think that my hypothesis is robust ?

[vtt13]

E698 story next

The Siegfried guns were located at La Bouilladisse and Aubagne half way between Marseille and Toulon beginning of August 1944 in a good position to shell "La Ciotat" that was considered as the best location for an invasion.

Two photos were taken at La Bouilladisse. ("La preuve par neuf", J. Pélissier).







Despite the photo showing a shot, there is no trace of an heavy bombing after the Provence invasion. The reason may be that the railways guns were straffed by a patrol of P47 the 17th of August, the "Gneisenau" being hit by a bomb at Aubagne. They were found in Montelimard few days after.

[JABIER]

Hi,
Maybe the damage caused by a Siegfried Gun?
Picture: 1945 Original WWII ETO Photo Shell Hole from 360MM Railroad Gun Luxembourg WW2
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334417383242?m ... olid=10050

Regards,

[na4222]

I think a shell from Siegfried would have destroyed the building?

[EPOCH3]

Documented rounds from the Paris Gun impacts on Paris buildings look fairly similar to the photo although that was only 21cm.

[ALVF]

Hello,

This photograph shows the "collège Buvignier" transformed in hospital at Verdun in june 1915. The building was hit by a 38 cm shell fired by a 38 cm SKL/45 the 4th june 1915. The shell had about the same high explosive charge of the 38 cm shell fired by "Siegfried Kanone":

The damage is very similar with the Luxembourg hit dated 1945.
Yours sincerly,
Guy François.