twin 8.35 cm V 22

[jopaerya]

Hello

Here a nice photo of a naval twin 8.35 cm V 22 , does somebody know if
there were if there were more Skoda naval medium and flak weapons ??

Photo = Ceskoslovenske Delostrelectvo from J.Janousek

Regards Jos

P.S. Thanks V.

[The Edge]

This twin 83.5mm installation was put on Yugoslav destroyer "Dubrovnik"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubrovnik_(ship)
Yugoslavia used 8.35mm Vz 22/24 guns in single mounts on other ships (along earlier 9cm Vz 12/20s, also in single mounts) in AA role.

Yugoslavia used medium-caliber Skoda 140mm guns on destroyer “Dubrovnik” (also planned for “Split”)
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_55-56_Skoda.htm
and 120mm guns on “Beograd” class destroyers.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_47-46_Skoda.htm

Regards,

Edge / Antic

[jopaerya]

Thanks The Edge

For the information , do you know if this is also a ex-Yugoslav gun ??

Regards Jos

[The Edge]

For the information , do you know if this is also a ex-Yugoslav gun ??

I don't think so - nothing I know, used by Yugoslav Navy, matches this installation.

[Dili]

40mm/67 Skoda? I Never saw that naval AA gun.

In my notes i have 40mm/67 Skoda in Zmaj Minelayer and Beograd DD in double mounts. If it is this gun it can only be in Zmaj since the Beograd ones was in small platform.

[The Edge]

For the "Zmaj", hydroplanes depot ship comissioned 1930, I have "2x84mm, 2x40mm". All guns seems to be in single mounts. I was under impresion that "40mm" means a Bofors one. Where do you found info about Skoda 40mm guns placed on "Zmaj"? (Since ship was from 1930, this sounds plausible, as Yugoslavia didn't used 40mm Pom-Poms).

Everywhere I looked, Belgrade Class destroyers are stated as armed with twin-Boforses. :roll:

Thanks in advance,

Edge / Antic

[Dili]

http://oceania.pbworks.com/YUGOSLAVIAN%20NAVY

Is one source. I had another that refered specifically the manufacturer name Skoda 40/67 but i don't find it, another lesson that i should take more care with references...


Note the above website refers Beograd with Bofors 40/43 i wonder if that gun lenght calibre ever existed, and they certainly seems bigger in low resolution drawings i have seen.

[The Edge]

VERY INTERESTING data!

OBOP/OBWàSM Typ „Zmaj” (Nm., 1930)
ts, 1870 tp; 83,0×13,0×3,51/4,00 m; 2 SD8 MAN, 3260 KM, 2 śr, 15 w; 140 tr, 4000/ ; 2×84/55pl M1929, 4×40/67pl2, 1 wsam.; dźwig 6,5 t; z. 45. 1937: 100 min.

From this source it seams “Zmaj” have two naval version of 83.5mm L/55 guns (“M1929”) in single AA mounts ("pl") and two twin-AA guns ("pl2") "40mm L/67” (manufacturer not mentioned) :roll: . Again, very interesting!

Typ „Dubrovnik” (WBr., 1932)
1880 ts, 2400 tk, 2884 tp; 113,2×10,7×3,58/4,10 m; 2+1 TPm Parsons, 3 k Yarrow, 42000+900 KM, 2 śr, 37 w (40,3); 590 tr, 7000/15, 1700/20; 4×140/56 Skoda, 2×84/55pl2 Skoda M1929, 6×40/43pl2×2,2×1 Bofors, 2×14,5pl, 6 wt 5333 (.), 2 mbg, 2 wbg (..), .. min; z. 240.

Four single 140mm L/56 Skoda guns, one twin-mount for AA 83.5mm Skoda guns, six 40mm AA Bofors “L/43” (Could it be Italian designation for Bofors 40mm L/56? :roll: ), two twin- and two single-mounts; two 14.5mm AAMGs??? (Obvious mistake - that's 15mm ZB-60); Also note: six 533mm torpedoes in two triple-tube arrangement

Typ „Beograd” (1939; B: Fr.)
1210 ts, 1655 tp; 98,0×9,45×3,18 m; 2 TPm Parsons (B: Curtis), 3 k Yarrow, 44000 KM, 2 śr, 38 w; 120 tr, 1200/16; 4×120/46 Skoda, 4×40/43pl2 Bofors, 2×14,5pl, 6 wt 5503 (6), 1 wbg (..), 30 min; z. 145.

Again “Bofors” 40mm guns in twin-mounts, as everywhere I found. Another mistake about AAMG caliber. Now there are new / French type 550mm torpedoes, again in triple-tube arrangement.

Typ „Split” (1943)
plan: 1875 ts, 2400 tk, 2700 tp; 120,0×12,0×3,05 m; 2 TPm Parsons, 2 k Yarrow, 50000 KM, 2 śr, 37 w; 590 tr, / ; 5×140/56 Skoda, 5×40/43pl Bofors, 4×15pl, 6 wt 5502 (.), wbg (..), 40 min; z. .

This time the caliber of AAMG is correct. Six torpedoes in (three) two-tube devices? Very interesting! (Post war “Split” - comissioned 1958 - had one, USA type, five-tube 533mm apparatus)

[Dili]

It will be good to have photographic evidence of Zmaj AA guns, where they were before the ship was taken by Germans.

six 40mm AA Bofors “L/43” (Could it be Italian designation for Bofors 40mm L/56?)

I don't think so. That is a too big step difference. usually difference is not more than 2-4 cal. here we have 13!

Also note: six 533mm torpedoes in two triple-tube arrangement

I think that is correct isn't it? I always have read Dubrovnick w/533mm TT.

----
Note that website have put 90mm gun in Minelayers. Many sources often get that wrong and put 8,4cm

[Dili]

Dubrovnick destroyer

Can be seen the 40mm double side by side between the funnels. 83.5mm tubes after 2 funnel is obscured in this angle

2009-09-02_120824.jpg (82.9 KiB) Viewed 2917 times

Post edit: Images came from this forum: http://www.paluba.info/smf/index.php

[Dili]

From photos above it is certain that the 40mm Dubrovnick guns have no 43 cal. tube lenght, they have a bigger one.

Post edit: note how the black seats in 83.5 mm and the supposed 40mm in jopaerya photo seems lookalike.

[jopaerya]

Hi Dili

Yes the seats on the guns are looking alike also your photo's on the Dubrovnick are not 4 cm Bofors .

Regards Jos

[Dili]

Thanks i can't really recognize if they are or not Bofors.

[jopaerya]

Hi Dili

The 4 cm Flak gun on the Dubrovnick has a a slimmer and larger barrel then the Bofors and has no flame hider
on the tip of the barrel , also the 4 cm has there sights on a bar on top of the barrel , I can't see them your photo .

Regards Jos

[The Edge]

These 4cm guns on "Dubrovnik" are clearly not Bofors ones (so Jos again found some really astonishing ) - thanks for the photos.

Since "Dubrovnik" and "Zmaj" were commisioned in the same period (1929-30), it is to be expected that they share the same models of guns (83.5mm "M1929" and 4cm "L/87" guns). Royal Yugoslav Navy made very little modification work on their ships - they were mostly used as they were made; rare exception was putting some new AA guns on WWI-era vessels. (It seems all 15mm AAMGs were placed on ships 1939-40 also)

From the info I have 40mm Bofors guns were in short supply - so using the "original" guns on "Dubrovnik" and "Zmaj" make sense.

About torpedoes - I think that it is rather obvious that "Dubrovnik" and two subs bought in UK have 533mm torpedoes, the rest of new vessels the French 550mm ones (other two subs, three "Beograd" destroyers, large torpedo boats made in Germany and "Split" in construction). Again, from the info I have French side was very angry with Yugoslav 1928 deal with Vickers-Armstrong (money came from internal Yugoslav State Loan), so they made a pressure on Yugoslavs to buy French-made vessels in future (two subs and later destroyers). Use of 550mm torpedoes on German-made MTBs was "by default" one, since by 1936-37 French influence started to drop, with German prestige raising (Yugoslavs also ordered two German-made subs, Type IID; torpedo caliber unclear).