twin 8.35 cm V 22

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Dili
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by Dili » 08 Sep 2009 13:34

Interesting that 40mm/43 after all existed, but photo evidence shows a normal Bofors. Could it have been mounted in Orjen Torpedo Boats? It was only one gun there.

Btw Ostvenik submarine had a "special" Skoda 40mm/67. Unclear what special means. Maybe only the mount. There are photos of submarine without it so speculating the mount could be collapsible.
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The Edge
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by The Edge » 08 Sep 2009 13:48

Ahmm... :? I know that many, many sources name this sub "Ostvenik", "Ostevnik", etc, but this is all wrong. (Both are meaningless words)

Real name is "Osvetnik" ("Revenger") - from the Serbian word "Osveta" (Revenge)

Other subs are:
"Hrabri" ("Courageous")
"Smeli" ("Audacious")
"Nebojsha" ("Fearless" - btw, also a male name)

Dili
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by Dili » 08 Sep 2009 13:49

Thanks I'll correct it in my notes. Edit: i was being dyslexic...my notes are correct.

I edited my post above refering Orjen Torpedo boats. here is a photo post war

The gun in rear fits the design of Bofors 40mm/43 at least the tube. Now the question is if this gun was already there before War.
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The Edge
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by The Edge » 08 Sep 2009 14:15

Check this out: http://oceania.pbworks.com/Yu%20Hrabri-1928 :roll:

I said RYu Navy didn't used 40mm Vickers "Pom-Poms" :oops: Again, my apologizes...
(This naval stuff is really frustrating! :( )

Dili
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by Dili » 08 Sep 2009 14:26

I said too but seems it was in that Submarine, never saw a photo evidence tough, the tower seems already full with 2 4inch guns in it.. Btw, check the mail i sent you.

What people think about 40mm gun in back of Durmitor is it a 40mm/43?

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The Edge
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by The Edge » 08 Sep 2009 15:18

Mail received. :D Not consumed properly (yet). :(

First impression - even the name of this topic is wrong! :lol:

Durmitor gun looks like Army L/60 model, not some "shorty".

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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by jopaerya » 09 Sep 2009 06:26

Hello All

Before we get lost in the information , the problem with the ships of the Royal Yugoslav navy is that they were
reused by the Italian and later by the Germans and all did make changes in the armement of the ships .

The submarine's were made in France and in Engeland http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/navy/navyfr.htm
and did recieve also the original weapons from those countries .

Regards Jos

P.S. I did try to change the name of this Topic in "Guns of the Royal Yugoslav Navy" but I could not edit it anymore .

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The Edge
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by The Edge » 09 Sep 2009 08:02

jopaerya wrote:Before we get lost in the information , the problem with the ships of the Royal Yugoslav navy is that they were reused by the Italian and later by the Germans and all did make changes in the armement of the ships.

Very much true :) and worthy of a new topic - "Aramament alternations of Royal Yugoslav Ships in Axis use"

jopaerya wrote:The submarine's were made in France and in Engeland http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/navy/navyfr.htm and did recieve also the original weapons from those countries.

In case of subs made in England, yes. In case of subs made in France - no! (These had Skoda 100mm L/35 & Skoda AA 40mm L/67 guns originally)

jopaerya wrote: P.S. I did try to change the name of this Topic in "Guns of the Royal Yugoslav Navy" but I could not edit it anymore .

Whats wrong with the name of topic is mainly "V 22" in it. Guns on the twin mount / openning photo are not Vz. 22/24 type (as used on cruiser "Dalmacija") but the special naval M1929 variant (used on "Dubrovnik" and "Zmaj") :idea: . Otherwise, I agree that the title "Guns of RYN" would be the most appropriate. :)

Administrator? :roll:

Dili
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by Dili » 09 Sep 2009 15:49

The problem of 2 Vickers 2Pdr in Submarine class Hrabri is where they can be?
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by aleksandars » 09 Sep 2009 16:39

I welcome all participants in the discussion .... how am I a new member, do not criticize me too much if I made some mistake with my donation in this discussion :D

So far I have not heard that the submarines "Nebojša" and "Hrabri" had 2 Vickers 2Pdr ...

Is there any photo of these guns on submarines "Nebojša" and "Hrabri"?

Dili
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by Dili » 09 Sep 2009 19:07

It is in several places, here is an example http://oceania.pbworks.com/Yu%20Hrabri-1928 pointed above by The Edge.
Other says only a light Machine gun besides the 2x4"inch guns.

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The Edge
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by The Edge » 10 Sep 2009 07:37

aleksandars wrote:I welcome all participants in the discussion .... how am I a new member, do not criticize me too much if I made some mistake with my donation in this discussion

Welcome aboard. Don't worry, it is the old members who get the most of criticism. :wink:
aleksandars wrote: So far I have not heard that the submarines "Nebojša" and "Hrabri" had 2 Vickers 2Pdr ...

Me to. :? Only found it in the above mentioned site.

aleksandars wrote: Is there any photo of these guns on submarines "Nebojša" and "Hrabri"?

No. In last few days I searched these class photos, saw a copule of dozens and couldn't find one with Vickers guns.

My conclusion is that this class had two 4-inch guns and one rifle-caliber MG only (note that prewar Yugoslavia also didn't use the "7.62mm" caliber). Maybe the 40mm Vickers guns were considered for them, but eventually not placed (since Navy in meantime adopted another 40mm AA gun). :roll:
Last edited by The Edge on 10 Sep 2009 08:38, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by The Edge » 10 Sep 2009 07:39

Dili wrote:The problem of 2 Vickers 2Pdr in Submarine class Hrabri is where they can be?

Lost in the budget? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Btw, I also searched the 40mm Bofors installations (Swedish ones). It seems that single mounts were regularly fitted with air-cooled guns (Army type) and even some double mounts had such guns. Examples:
40 mm akan M/36 i 40 mm lavettage M/36
Enkel, handstabiliserad marinlavett, luftkyl eldrör
Skiljer sig mot lvakan m/36 i det att den är äldre och balanseringen sker med motvikter i stället för med fjädrar
(40mm automatic cannon M/36 in naval mount M/36
Manually stabilized.
In overall, an older design. The barrel is air-cooled and balanced by counter weights instead of spring equilibrators)

and
40 mm akan M/36 i 40 mm dubbellavettage M/36
Pjäs i ombyggt ubåtslavettage, luftkylda eldrör
(40mm automatic cannon M/36 in twin naval mount M/36
Air-cooled barrels in a converted submarine mount)


To my amazement, I also found:
40 mm akan M/36 i 40 mm lavettage M/36 A
Plattform av den ungerska modellen
Lika med arméns lvakan m/36 H (fast)
(40mm automatic cannon M/36 on static mount M/36 A
Hungarian styled static mounting
Same as the Army's lvakan m/36 H (static)


To conclude, I'm not againt the "sub L/43 Bofors" theory for Orjen Class MTBs. (Just deeply suspicious :wink: ). 40mm gun was exceptionally heavy armament for that time (it was 1943/4 when such calibre guns again appeared on MTBs), so some "light version" on "light mount" is not hard to comprehend. Italians removed these guns almost immediately after capture (put 20mm guns instead) - number of reasons could be found for such change, including ammo supply problems (since L/43 sub guns used rather exotic, reduced loads). Same problem could be faced by "Durmitor" in Allied use (so the "regular" Bofors gun was placed instead, maybe even on converted mount).

Dili
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by Dili » 10 Sep 2009 15:27

Me to. Only found it in the above mentioned site.


Seems you still not read everything :lol: :lol: :lol:

David Reasoner
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Re: twin 8.35 cm V 22

Post by David Reasoner » 10 Sep 2009 21:34

Dili wrote:
Me to. Only found it in the above mentioned site.


Seems you still not read everything :lol: :lol: :lol:


Dili, I assume you mean he hasn't read this yet :D :

Image

From the Rene Greger Warship International article on Yugoslav naval guns I quoted previously.

David

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