Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
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Eax-E
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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Eax-E » 15 Mar 2015 12:33

Hello,

Thanks Janef, always a great help to read from you about fire control.
Janef wrote: 110 volt system used in heavy batteries.
Dou you mean the Selsyn ?

Regards

Janef
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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Janef » 15 Mar 2015 14:16

Eax-E wrote:Hello,

Thanks Janef, always a great help to read from you about fire control.
Janef wrote: 110 volt system used in heavy batteries.
Dou you mean the Selsyn ?

Regards
Yes, the original Selsyn system (Epa-Seipa-Anlage) was meant for Mittelbatterien, i.e. 15 and 17 cm batteries. It was based on the C/38 Peilsäule and the C/39 transmission system, operated on 50 volts and had a max range of 36.000 meters.
The Heavy batteries were equipped with L.B.Kl.G. C/36 from 1936 on. With the introduction of the Epa-Seipa, it was decided to use this as an interim system on the heavy batteries. Von Harnier mentions this system as the Lapavo in his book "Artillerie im Küstenkampf". To cope with the range question the system was slightly redesigned for use of 110 volt and a maximum range of 72.000 meters. An azimuth transmitter was added on to the L.B.Kl.G. C/36, and bearing for the guns were transmitted from this new device, range just as before from the C/39 table. The new designed C/40 Zielsäule was used for giving Leitstand bearing to the target. My guess is that the C/40 Zielsäule was meant as Leitstand bearing instrument for the planned fire control system C/40, and that the C/41 Peilsäule was planned for the Peilstand attached til heavy batteries. All the C/41 units I have seen were all without Selsyns, but can be retrofitted with such.

JEF

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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 16 Mar 2015 11:40

Greatly appreciate the photgraphs recently posted. I can guess at the purpose of each item, but if a identification of the use of of each can be provided it would be of assistance.

Thanks

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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Janef » 16 Mar 2015 14:42

Carl Schwamberger wrote:Greatly appreciate the photgraphs recently posted. I can guess at the purpose of each item, but if a identification of the use of of each can be provided it would be of assistance.

Thanks
Are You thinking of the pictures posted by Jos on 29.12.2014? (6 ebay-photos)

JEF

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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 17 Mar 2015 00:57

Yes, the 29 December post.

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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Janef » 17 Mar 2015 11:04

jopaerya wrote:Some Ebay picture's from the writers of the Seacoast Defenses , looks like private shots or extra that were not used in the report .

Regards Jos
1.JPG
This shows two instructional poster to the left and one operational poster to the right. The two left posters describes the way the L.B.Kl.G C/36 operates with one triangle (Mess) formed by the Leitstand(Leit) - Peilstand(Paul) and the target(Z), with known baseline and orientation Leit-Paul, and readings in degrees and /16 degrees from the to selected Battery azimuth instruments. And the battery triangle, which takes into account the position of the guns. (One gun selected, the other guns must make correction for parallax.)
The small poster on the right is a drawing of the orientation object (e.g. a lighthouse) with aiming point, bearing from the azimuth instrument and range.
2.JPG
The left hand poster is instructional and shows the principle of the L.B.Kl.G. C/36. The right hand poster is operational, known as "the writing on the wall" - instructions on needed actions and type of alarms.
3.JPG
This poster is operational an was used in Planschiessen, i.e. indirect firing against targets not seen optical. Data came from the FuMO 214. As bearing from the radar was given in mils (1/6400) the data had to be converted to degrees an 16/ degrees for practical use.
4.JPG
This is an operational part of the Leitstand and shows a part of the Mecketisch, used to calculate data i firing against incoming aircraft formations. The device was costructed by Kpt.z.See Karl Conrad Mecke.
6.JPG
This is an operational aid to calculate the firing data for the star shell gun (Leuchtgeschütz). Heavy batteries did not have integral optical instruments for providing such data, as the medium range batteries had.

JEF
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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Janef » 17 Mar 2015 11:14

5.JPG
The last picture.
An operational chart showing the battery with all Peilstände. The main purpose of this chart was to select the two Peilstände that gave the best operational basis for the engagement. As this is from Hanstholm, there are no obstacles (Islands etc) in front of the battery and the Peilstände have free sight to the sea, the only limitation beeing the height above water and hence the horizon range. In other batteries this chart would show dead sectors and masking of covered area.
JEF
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Carl Schwamberger
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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 17 Mar 2015 12:08

Thanks. That was very helpful
r is operational an was used in Planschiessen, i.e. indirect firing against targets not seen optical. Data came from the FuMO 214. As bearing from the radar was given in mils (1/6400) the data had to be converted to degrees an 16/ degrees for practical use.
This indicates the coastal artillery used degrees for orientation direction, and the FuMO 214 was built for army artillery use, correct?

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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by SES » 17 Mar 2015 12:29

Hi,
The FuMO214 was a navalized version of the Luftwaffe Würzburg-Riese.
bregds
SES

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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Janef » 17 Mar 2015 15:48

Carl Schwamberger wrote:Thanks. That was very helpful
r is operational an was used in Planschiessen, i.e. indirect firing against targets not seen optical. Data came from the FuMO 214. As bearing from the radar was given in mils (1/6400) the data had to be converted to degrees an 16/ degrees for practical use.
This indicates the coastal artillery used degrees for orientation direction, and the FuMO 214 was built for army artillery use, correct?
The Marine-Küsten-Artillerie used 360 degrees divided into /16 degree (I.e. 1/2-->1/4-->1/8-->1/16) on its equipment, the normal in the Army and Air Force was the "Strich" 1/6400. As a result of this German practice the Norwegian Coast Artillery based on German guns used the degree and /16 degree after the war. 1/16 degree equals 1,11 Strich as a thumb rule. The Fumo 214 was a slightly modified standard issue Würzburg-Riese, and completely inadequate as an artillery radar due to its absent range discrimination capability. Shots closer to the target than 200-300 meters was "swalloved" by the target echo.

JEF

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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 17 Mar 2015 21:23

I see how that can be inferior is several ways.

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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Natter » 18 Mar 2015 22:26

Here is a device called streckenzugtafel as mentioned on the artillery K.A.N: on the previous page.
No idea what it is however, only identified by name
Attached photo taken from the following US document:

Preliminary Catalogue of German Fire Control Equipment

I'm also adding this one for those who find it of interest:
ETO Ordnance Technical Intelligence Report No. 121 - Preliminary Report on German Fire Control Methods (1945)
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Carl Schwamberger
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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 18 Mar 2015 23:02

Natter. Thanks again. These items are very helpful.

Peter A
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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Peter A » 05 Jul 2015 20:47

Hi Forum,
Does anyone have pictures of a Lang Basis Gerät M42H or a Lang Basis Kleingerät C/36?
Regards, Peter

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: Artillery Fire Control Equipment

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 05 Jul 2015 21:20

Here is all my search turned up. Perhaps this: http://www.kystfort.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=930

forum will lead to something. Note the links to the US Army intel reports in the last post there.

Good Luck

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