Rounds of the 28 cm K 5 (E)

[jopaerya]

Hello

According to the photocaption these should be rounds of the 28 cm K 5 (E) ??

Photo's from Ebay

Regards Jos

[Manuferey]

The 2nd picture also appeared in an ebay auction back in September in a series of pictures, one of them definitely showed a 28 cm K5.

Here is another picture of the splined round and a short discussion:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=71299

Emmanuel

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

I think the shells are 28cm Gr.35. weight 255.5kg
This is the standard shell for 28cm K5 (E) and was fitted externally with 12 soft-metal ribs, curved at 5º inclination to match the rifling of the barrel

Thanks for sharing these images.

Regards Sturm78

[jopaerya]

Hello Friends

Here some data I have found in the German Seacoast Defences .
28 cm Gr. 35 = H.E.
28 cm Gr. 35 ( ??) = H.E. with spotting charge
28 cm Gr. 35 (Ub) = practice
28 cm R.Gr. 4331 = rocket-assisted

Regards Jos

[Andrzej Ditrich]

Hello,

hope it might help: some drawings of shells for K5 and...Bruno.
I included Bruno to pay our attention that they looks almost the same
Also added photo of shells for K5 in special wagon.

Brgds
@ndrew

[Andrzej Ditrich]

...

[jopaerya]

Hello @ndrew

NIce drawings of the 28 cm K 5 and 24 cm Bruno rounds , i did
not know that the 24 cm Bruno used also the soft-metal ribs .
Could the 24 rounds be for the 24 cm Bruno neue Kanone (E) ??
Here a picture of model round of the 28 cm R.Gr. 4331 .
Normal round = max range 62.4 k.m.
Rocket assisted round = Max range 85.3 k.m. ( info German seacoast defences )

Photo = German Secret Weapons from Brian Ford

Regards Jos

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Ummmh, 24cm railway gun shells with soft-metal ribs??? I do not know. I have dudes.
The 24cm Theodor K (E) and 24cm Theodor Bruno K (E) fired 24cm Sprg L4.2 or 24cm Pz Sprg shells and I do not think that these shells had external soft-metal ribs.
Jopaerya, Bruno neue K (E) was 28cm caliber and fired 28cm Gr39 shells weighing 265kg

Regards Sturm78

[jopaerya]

Hi Sturm78

You are right about the 28 cm Bruno n.K. (E) , but first I thought it was a German typo
on the drawing from @ndrew but the lenght and span are different from the 28 cm K. 5 (E) .
So the quistion is what type of gun could fire this round ??

Regards Jos

[jopaerya]

Hello All

I would like your opinion maybe the 24 cm drawings from @ndrew are from the 24 cm K.3

Photo = Ebay.de

Regards Jos

[peeved]

Hi Sturm78

You are right about the 28 cm Bruno n.K. (E) , but first I thought it was a German typo
on the drawing from @ndrew but the lenght and span are different from the 28 cm K. 5 (E) .
So the quistion is what type of gun could fire this round ??

Regards Jos

According to Waffen-Revue Nr. 70 the 28-cm-Granate 35 was the ammunition for 28-cm-K 5 Tiefzug (E). According to WR the 28-cm shell in @ndrew's pic is Ausführung B which along with Ausf. C weighed 255 kg complete as opposed to 255,5 kg for the original 28-cm-Gr. 35 which was later renamed Ausführung A. Obturation ring diameters were 308 mm for Ausf.A, 305 mm for Ausf. B and 301 mm for Ausf. C.

As for the 24-cm-Granate 35 Waffen-Revue Nr. 55 mentions it to be ammunition for the 24-cm-Kanone K 3 variant with eight groove rifling which supports Jos' photographic evidence.

Markus

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Jopaerya and Markus: as for 24cm Gr.35 shells (posted by @ndrew), I think you're probably right and is 24cm ammunition used in the K3. Ian hogg in "German Artillery of WW2" say for 24cm K3 gun: "...the standard gun,...., used a 64-groove conventionally rifled barrel but -in addition- a small number of 8-groove barrels were made to fire splined projectiles."

Therefore, I think the 24cm Gr.35 Be and 24cm Gr.35 Ausführung C shells drawings posted by @ndrew and the last image posted by Jopaerya show no standard shells used in 24cm K3 heavy gun with these non-standard barrels.

According to Ian Hogg the standard shell for K3 was 24cm Gr.35 with 151.40kg. I guess the standard projectile would have no external ribs.

Regards Sturm78

[peeved]

Hi Sturm,

According to Waffen-Revue Nr. 54 & 55 the eight groove rifling was the original scheme for the 24-cm-Kanone K 3, K 3 being listed as adopted weapon in Ergänzung der Bildmappe, Eingeführte Waffen und Geräte in early 1937. In a manual from 1.12.1939 the existence of K 3 barrels with 72 grooves is mentioned. Later the K 3s with eight-groove rifling were referred to as K 3 Tiefzug and conventionally rifled ones K 3 Vz (Vielzug). WR doesn't mention 64-groove rifling but that might be another possibility for the K 3 Vz or maybe the K 3/1, another variant with different barrel.

According to WR the K 3 Vz fired modified Gr. 35 shells that were named 24-cm-Granate 35 umg. [umgeändert maybe] where the guide ribs were removed with lathe and a screw-on driving band inserted; Overall weight 151,0 kg. K 3/1 shells were the 24-cm-Granate 35 umg. and 155 kg 24-cm-Granate 42.

Markus

[Sturm78]

Hi Markus,

Uffff....What a mess!!!

Sturm78

[Andrzej Ditrich]

some other drawings and a photo