Italian railwayguns

[Manuferey]

I found two picture of the 152/40 that match the drawing of the 1st type. The 2nd picture comes from a British poster from 1917 (source: old-prints.com). So, it would appear that the 1st type was the original one and was used in WW1 while the 2nd type was a modernized version.


Source: http://www.wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?postid=100088



Looking again at the picture posted by Sturm78 on 25 October 2012, the shield is actually different from the one of the 152/40 1st model and there is no recuperator on top of the barrel. In addition, there is a smaller gun behind a shield on the same railcar. Therefore, it is not one of the two types of 152/40 railway guns. BTW are we sure that the sailors are Italian?

Emmanuel

[ludvig]

Hello Manuferey ,
1) thank very much for new interesting pictures !
2) Concerning the photo from Sturm 78 25 Oct 2012 ;
found the orginal souce : Caiti page 83 with the
photo caption ( translated ) Artillery train no 7 based
on Ancona during a practice firing in World War One
notice that 120 /40 are mounted in pairs in one rail
flatcar .
3) Your last photos shows the 152/40 A 1891 of the
Ammiragliato type , see Curami page 170 for details

regards
ludvig

[Manuferey]

Thank you very muc, ludvig.

I have looked closely at the two pictures posted by Jos at the beginning of this thread, on December 7 & 10, 2009:

Hello All
I am looking for picture's and information on Italian railwayguns , who can help me ??
Photo's = BaMa



Regards Jos

Thanks Mario

For the information on the Italian railway guns , so this should also be a 120/45 ??
Do you have any information on the railway guns that were used in the Venice area
end 1944 early 1945 the battéries V 678 or 4./632 ( Pointa Sabbioni ) and V 627 or
6./632 ( Casa Bianca ) both equipped with 6 x 10 cm railway guns could be the 102 mm ??
Photo = Ebay.de



Regards Jos

The guns do not look actually to me like 120/45 nor like 102/35, even with a shield. I think that they could be instead 100 mm/47 OTO similar to the Mod. 37 one below. In addition, the caliber would match the “6 x 10 cm railway guns” mentioned by Jos.


Source: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_39-47_m1931.htm


I have also found another picture with railcars very similar to Jos’ 2nd picture. The landscape looks the same. But the shields are different and resemble somewhat to those of the 100mm/47 OTO Mod.31 below. Two other guns with the straighter shield are also visible on the left. So, if we put these two pictures together, we end up with a battery of at least 6 guns, 4 guns with a certain type of shield and 2 guns with a different shield.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/deckarudo/6143674474/


http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=158806

Separately, the captions of the Bundesarchiv pictures posted by Jos on December 7, 2009 mention “Marine Eisenbahnbatterie gegen Zerstörer” and the photographer as “Marine Kriegsberichter: Haring”. So, were “V 678 or 4./632 ( Pointa Sabbioni ) and V 627 or 6./632 ( Casa Bianca )” “Marine Eisenbahnbatterien”?

What do you think?

Emmanuel

[jopaerya]

Hi Emmanuel

NIce research work , I have three documents on the V 678 or 4./632 ( Pointa Sabbioni ) and V 627 or 6./632
( Casa Bianca ) all only give 6 x 10 cm guns and no guntype and yes they were naval batterie's .

Regards Jos

[Manuferey]

Thanks, Jos. Do your documents say if these units were MKB like Gneisenau for instance or MaFla Batteries?

Emmanuel

[jopaerya]

Hi Emmanuel

Both batterie's were part of the M.A.A. 632 4./ and 6./

Regards Jos

[Manuferey]

Thanks, Jos.

Emmanuel

[Manuferey]

Since there was no 100/47 railroad gun in the Italian inventory in 1943 AFAIK, it seems logical that these railroad guns were manufactured by the Germans themselves around 1944.

I found the following information (translated in English here) on the Italian Navy website (http://www.marina.difesa.it/storiacultu ... rmati.aspx) that could explain where the type POZ railcars for the 100/47 guns came from: “Four trains remaining in Liguria were captured by the Germans and partly dismantled in order to use the turrets as fixed locations of artillery to reinforce the Gothic Line.”

After removing the guns then, the Germans would have been left with type POZ railcars. These railcars would have been prime candidates to have 100/47 guns installed some time afterwards.

Emmanuel

[jopaerya]

Hello Emmanuel

I have the same conclusion on both batterie's , but the name V 627 and V 678 sounds very Italian ??

Regards Jos

[Dili]

Yes.
At least Venice batteries were V *** . If you have access to Clerici book about Italian Coastal Defense it might list the numbers for Venice batteries -search for those kind of 100mm guns - and you may find origin of such guns while in emplacements, then converted to Rail. Search also around Trieste etc...
Might also only means they were newly build or from a ship and the whole system was build in Venice Arsenal.

[Manuferey]

Armored trains made Italian front pages in 1943:

A three 102/35 gun type PRZ railcar in anti-aircraft action (April 1943):


Two 2 cm Flak Oerlikon guns on a Type P railcar (July 1943):


A rangefinder (February 1943):


Emmanuel

[Manuferey]

Here is a picture of a 194-29 (ex-194 mm Mle 70-93) gun from battlefieldhistorian.com with the caption:
"Italian 194mm railway gun of 269th Battery, Italian 1st Armoured Artillery, firing in support of Allied troops in Cassino. This battery was the only one from the regiment that escaped the German takeover when Italy surrendered. With a range of over 10 miles it was useful addition to Allied firepower."



Emmanuel

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

A small image from EBay. I think 152mm L40 guns, probably after Sep. 1943

Sturm78

[Manuferey]

Sturm78,

Yes, this is one the Italian 152/40 "treni armati" (armored trains) of the 2nd type (see my post # 45 of Nov. 18, 2012).

I wonder if it is one the German naval railway batteries named Wotan or Hagen that are mentioned in the following thread:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=196723

Emmanuel

[Manuferey]

2) Concerning the photo from Sturm 78 25 Oct 2012 ; found the orginal souce : Caiti page 83 with the
photo caption ( translated ) Artillery train no 7 based on Ancona during a practice firing in World War One notice that 120 /40 are mounted in pairs in one rail flatcar .
regards
ludvig

Possibly another picture of the same series (120/40 mounted in pairs):



Source: http://www.pescaranews.net/focus/storia ... 1607585996

Emmanuel