3cm Flak 103/38

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
Cobrahistorian
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 14:44

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 13 Feb 2014 14:48

If I'm understanding which bracket you're referring to on the left side, it's the travel lock. It's just a keyed pin that rotates into a hole on the gun mount to lock it in place. The original spring in the release mechanism was badly corroded and so we're looking for a replacement right now.

It isn't really the counterweight in the mount that makes the gun stable, but the two equilibrators under the mount. Spring tension through cables attached to the rear ends of each of the gun mount angle irons keeps the gun stable. The receiver is over the center of gravity, so while there is a significant amount of mass forward of the mount, it is very well balanced.

The handwheels are causing some consternation here. The pins that hold them on are original to the piece. My hunch is at some point they were replaced, but I'm not 100% on that.

I'm going to head down to the storage tent today to take some photos of the sight mechanisms on both the 38 and the flakvierling. I'll even toss some Zwilling shots in. The Koblenz gun is in far better condition than ours and in some ways is more complete. I need to locate two flash suppressors for our gun.

More later, I've gotta go to work!

HerrLyppe
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 05:12
Location: Australia

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by HerrLyppe » 14 Feb 2014 03:55

Jon,

Pretty sure we're talking about the same thing. It stands to reason with the absence of the travel lock that is usually mounted to the top of the same plate that the battery box is mounted to. What is that in place of the battery box at the front? I looks as though it does have an allowance for something to be locked in at the front but tell what that might be.

Are those to bars running along the length of the bottom of the mount equilibriators? I had thought that these were further strengthening, along with the angle iron across the underside, because they'd cut the middle out of the platform. I'm assuming that these cables aren't connected to the cradle in any of the photos.

Where was this weapon stored over all these years? The two vehicle mounted weapons shown in the photo posted earlier in this thread by Sturm78 appear to have the normal later pattern pressed steel handwheels. Very hard to discern whether the housings are the same.

Look forward to seeing more photos.

Also, out of interest, I quickly put down a list of modifications to 2cm Flak 38 Lafette. Be interested if there's anything else there.
Flakvisier assembly
Flakvisier platform
Elevation and Traverse mechanism/ Housings replaced with new type
Reinforcements on underside
Replacement Cradle
Trailer support bars on lafette base reinforced
Front mounting plate replaced and battery box removed
Different style Begrenzer
Magazine tray mounts removed.
Cradle lock included on lafette
Rear lafettenkasten filled with counterweight
Elevation cylinder replaced by two mounted to brackets at front of lafette
Elevation arm to Flakvisier Schwenkarm and RH cradle bearing replaced with more robust arms.
Locking levers on upper lafette removed with circular covers welded.
Cocking pulley and handle added to read of upper lafette
Lower lafette platform modified by removing centre section and replacing top plate.
New bracket added to LH cradle bearing to carry 3cm munitionskasten
Deflector plate added to the rear of upper lafette

Cobrahistorian
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 14:44

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 14 Feb 2014 04:42

There are actually two travel locks. The traverse lock is a sliding piece of sheet steel that pins in place in either the up (free) or down (locked) position on the front of the mount. The elevation lock is the lever we previously discussed.

The two bars running under the mount are the equilibrator tubes. Each has two meter-long springs inside attached to the equilibrator cables. Those extend from inside the tubes, around the pulleys on the front of the mount and connect to the rear ends of the angle-iron gun mounts.

The weapon itself was stored at the National Air & Space Museum since 1990. It's been inside in climate controlled storage, so it's in very good shape. The only damage on it was the muzzle brake support bar, which had gotten bent at some point. We straightened it pretty easily.

I took a look at the Flakzwilling 43 today too. While probably more complete than the Koblenz gun, it is in rough shape. Our Dept of Logistics can perform miracles though, as the Field Artillery Museum's Munitionschlepper, StuH 42, etc can attest. There's a lot that we need to find for it though: muzzle brakes, sights, feed tray covers, just to name a few. Unfortunately, I've got a photo of it just after it was captured and the inventory list from 1946, both of which show that it had its bogeys. Sadly those are long gone, unless by some miracle the Ordnance Museum still has them....

HerrLyppe
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 05:12
Location: Australia

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by HerrLyppe » 15 Feb 2014 00:30

I was wondering about the actual weapon itself, and does it have some form of internal recoil mechanism? I have very little info on the 3cm Mk 103 or 108. The original 2cm Flak 38 lafette has a spring cylinder incorporated into the main body of the cradle, but seeing as they have dispensed with the cradle completely and essentially mounted the weapon directly to the bearings, the impact of the recoil on the mount as a whole must have been huge. Despite the large muzzle break. This is obviously why they have welded additional supports to the underside and the upper to lower lafette, and possibly the plate that's been added above the traverse mechanism. It would be interesting to see if the bearings in the 2cm Flak 38 lafette are the same as those on the Jaboschrek.

Thanks for explaining the cable mechanism and the equilibriator cylinders. Makes alot more sense now.

Looking forward to seeing the restoration of the other mounts. What sight is listed for the 37mm Flak 43 Zwilling? I'm always surprised that there's not a stronger relationship between museums of this type throughout the world to that would help in the completion of projects such as these.

Cobrahistorian
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 14:44

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 25 Feb 2014 04:06

Well, it looks like I may have a flakvizier 43 computing sight for the Flakzwilling coming to us...

HerrLyppe
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 05:12
Location: Australia

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by HerrLyppe » 27 Feb 2014 11:25

Does the small plate on the back of the Flakvisier assembly on the Jaboschrek have a designation?

Seems that there's another surviving Zwilling 43, but no idea where it is.

Image

Never heard of Flakvisier 43 but seems it may just be another name for the Visierkopf 37, which appears to have been called Uhrwerksvisier.
Could only find one photo of a Flakzwilling 43 with a Visierkopf. Even though it's a pretty poor image, there are aspects of it that vary from the Visierkopf 37. It will be interesting to see if the sight has a designation when you receive it.

Image

Basically every Flakzwilling 43 seems to be fitted with a Schwebedornvisier 43 otherwise.

Image

Image

Does the Flakzwilling 43 have a computerised Flakvisier assembly to mount on or is it just a basic mounting for a mechanical sight?

Any new photos?????

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 17837
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by jopaerya » 27 Feb 2014 11:30

Here is one picture of the Flakvisier, way under http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=29476

Regards Jos

HerrLyppe
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 05:12
Location: Australia

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by HerrLyppe » 02 Mar 2014 22:30

Not sure what you're referring to Jos. They all appear to have the Schwebedornvisier mounted, which the surviving example in the photo above alsp seems to still have. Does anyone know where it is?

Allan

Cobrahistorian
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 14:44

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 03 Mar 2014 23:39

Allan,

The sight I'm getting is a Visierkopf 37, just like the one mounted on the Zwilling in the first black and white pic you posted. I'll post pics of it when it's on hand.

As far as the Jaboschreck goes, we pulled everything off the mount today and dismounted the turret from the chassis. It'll be going to the blast booth this week and hopefully we'll have it in primer by Friday. More pics soon.

Here's the Zwilling as it sits now. Can't really tell from this angle which sight would mount on it. I'll see about getting some new pics by Friday when the weather is warmer.

Jon
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Cobrahistorian
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 14:44

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 03 Mar 2014 23:47

As you can see, I really need a pair of flash hiders for it!

HerrLyppe
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 05:12
Location: Australia

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by HerrLyppe » 04 Mar 2014 03:11

Jon,

The reason I asked about the sight is because, if the Flakavisier assembly on the weapon is simplified for the Schwebedornvisier 43 than it would be like mounting a Visierkopf 38/40 on your Jaboschrek.
The Visierkopf 37 is a really nice example of Flak optics anyway. It looks as the there is a metal cover over the front lens housing in the photo I posted earlier. I'm still missing a face pad from mine if anyone can help :D
Bit hard to tell from this angle but it actually looks as though your mount has a Schwebedornvisier mounted on it.

Is there a fairly comprehensive photo coverage being done of the Jaboschrek restoration?

You can see the 37mm flash suppressors on ebay quite often but they're often ground dug, in terrible condition for heinous prices.

Cobrahistorian
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 14:44

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 04 Mar 2014 16:30

Allan,

yeah, the few flash hiders I've seen in decent shape have been ridiculous price-wise. I'm not paying $900 for a flash suppressor. It'd cost me less than a third of that to make one that would be indistinguishable from the real thing.

As far as the Jaboschreck restoration, I think I'm up to 350-400 photos so far. Much of it is up on my facebook page and once complete, I'll transfer it all over to the ADA Museum page.

Santista
Member
Posts: 73
Joined: 27 Feb 2014 15:17

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Santista » 04 Mar 2014 21:09

Dragon's model of flakpanzer kugelblitz
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

HerrLyppe
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 05:12
Location: Australia

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by HerrLyppe » 05 Mar 2014 02:39

Possibly some images of the restoration of the Flakzwilling I included earlier.

http://www.maquetland.com/article-photo ... willing-43

I'd be interested in buying a disc with all the photos of the restoration if that's possible.
It's issues like sourcing these flash suppressors that makes me surprised that better relationships don't exist between museums around the world.

Cobrahistorian
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 14:44

Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 05 Mar 2014 04:52

Fortunately I have a good working relationship at least with many of the US museums. We've been doing great things with the National Air & Space Museum, and I'm hoping others will start to join in as well.

Image
Image
Image

Red primer!
Image



Here are some new pics. The Jaboschreck pics were taken yesterday and show pretty much everything we did yesterday afternoon. The Zwilling pics I took this morning. Unfortunately, many of these German guns were made from stamped sheet steel and sat out in the salt air at Aberdeen for years. They're rusted through in many places. The Zwilling, as with all of them, will be thoroughly media-blasted and have all of the major rust-through patched before being painted in accurate colors and markings.

Image
Image
Image

Return to “Fortifications, Artillery, & Rockets”