III.Artillerie Regiment 109

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chris221176
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III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by chris221176 » 04 Dec 2009 20:20

Hello Anybody !

A member of my family was a soldier at WWII. His Unit was the III.Abteilung Artillerie Regiment 109 - 9. Batterie.
I found a lot of pictures in an old shoe box, but I don`t know where and when this pictures where taken.
I also have the Wehrpass from this men. He was in Poland, France and Russia - where he was killed.

I found one picture in the net, at AHF, an exactly copy of one from mine !!!

My questions: Who has seen this picture. Who knows the owner of it ?
Who knows details of Artillerie Regiment 109 ? (Maybe names of soldiers, ...)

Best regards, chris221176
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jopaerya
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by jopaerya » 05 Dec 2009 12:49

Hello Chris

The guns fit with the text in Tessin 15 cm l.F.H. and 21 cm K 18 , look that the first photo the gun is spiked ?

Regards Jos
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chris221176
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by chris221176 » 05 Dec 2009 20:51

Thanks Jos !

The guns at the first photo where attacked by polish aircrafts near Jaworow.
Probably between 15.09.1939 and 16.09.1939.

Do you know what "Heerestruppe" exactly means ?

Regards Chris.

jopaerya
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by jopaerya » 05 Dec 2009 22:19

Hi Chris

Thanks for the information on the first photo , the Art. Reg. 108 was a independent unit and was not attached
to a division . As you can see on the info from Tessin the III./A.R. 109 was attached a few times to Army's .

Regards Jos

Peter K
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by Peter K » 06 Dec 2009 00:32

Hello Chris! :D

I have answered your private message (check your inbox) and please also read my post here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7#p1405287

If it comes to III./AR.109 during Polenfeldzug - as I wrote in my private messages:

It was part of Heerestruppen. During the campaign in Poland it was subordinated to XVIII Armee-Korps (after a few days renamed as XXII Armee-Korps). At the beginning of the campaign this was a mixed Panzer-Gebirgs corps (it consisted of 2. Panzer, 4. Leichte and 3. Gebirgs divisions) but after few days it became a purely Panzer corps (consisting of 2. Panzer and 4. Leichte divisions). Since 02.09.1939 it was involved in heavy combats in South-Western Poland, attacking from the Slovakian territory. On 10.09.1939 commander of III./AR.109 - Oberstleutnant Franz Güldenberg – was KIA (unfortunately I’m not sure who replaced him). He was killed near Blascowa.

From the report of Arko 30 which was sent to XXII Armee-Korps on 15.09.1939 at 13:45 we know, that on that day (15.09.1939) III./Artillerie-Regiment 109. was subordinated to SS Standarte “Germania”. From the same report we also know that the battery of 10 cm K18 guns was detached from the battalion (thus it had got only 2 batteries of 15 cm sFH 18 guns), but at the same time one battery of 8,8 cm Anti-Aircraft guns was attached to it. So this destroyed 8,8 cm gun which can be seen in one of these photos taken in the village of Mużyłowice is also from III./AR.109.

Polish sources also mention capturing one AA battery in Muzylowice. As you can see, III./Artillerie-Regiment 109. shared the faith of SS “Germania” during the battles of 14 – 16 IX 1939 (in the area Sadowa Wisznia - Jaworow).

Most probably during the night from 15 to 16 September it was stationing in Mużyłowice, where German forces were suddenly attacked by Polish units. After fierce hand-to hand night combat the village was taken and the Germans were either killed, captured or escaped. A lot of equipment was captured by Poles. Commander of III./SS "Germania (Obersturmbannführer Heinrich Koeppen) was KIA as well as the regimental adiutant (Obersturmführer Rudolf Schomburg) and many other soldiers from "Germania" and from attached to "Germania" motorized support units from XVII Armee-Korps. Probably also III./AR.109. suffered some casualties in blood during that terrible night.

During combats for Mużyłowice Polish soldiers captured dozens of German POWs. Many Germans were also killed - including mentioned above officers from SS "Germania". Poles lost 2 company chefs KIA in the battle - commander of 1st company (Cpt. Piotr Osica) and 3rd company (Lt. Franciszek Andrzejczuk) from 49th Inf.Rgt. (11th Inf.Div.).

Polish soldier who participated in night combats in Muzylowice - private Jan Gundlach - depicted this battle:

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As well as captured German equipment (among other equipment, one battery of AA guns 8,8cm as well as 8 howitzers calibre 15cm were captured - which means that all guns belonging to III./AR.109 were captured and destroyed):

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Another picture by Jan Gundlach showing combats against 5. Panzer-Division near Rzesna Ruska (18 - 20 IX 39):

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8,8cm AA guns from the AA battery attached to III./AR.109 destroyed in Muzylowice:

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There are a dozen or so photos of German equipment destroyed in Muzylowice, for example:

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Howitzers 15cm destroyed in Muzylowice (source: Ebay.de):

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Some of them very touching - that must have been horror for this little girl:

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Of course Polish soldiers who captured the village didn't have enough time to take photos - they were involved in destroying captured German equipment and were too busy. Most of photos documenting their defeat were taken by Germans themselves after re-occupying the village. German soldiers can be seen in some of them.

It should be noted that Muzylowice was inhabited by considerable German population. Both Polish and German civilians suffered during combats and subsequent Luftwaffe bombing, which took place soon after the village was captured by Poles (maybe soldiers of "Germania" after escaping from the village - mainly towards Jaworow - called for air support).

Here more photos - most probably not Mużyłowice - but Czarnokońce or Rogoźno - so another defeats of SS "Germania" and support units from XVII AK and XXII AK in the same area in combats against same Polish units:

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And this destroyed (probably in Czarnokonce) armoured vehicle belonged to SS "Germania":

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In Czarnokonce SS "Germania" most probably lost all of its armoured vehicles:

From Ryszard Dalecki's publication "Czy 38 DP Rez została rozbita 16.9.1939 r. pod Rodatyczami?" ("Was the 38th Res. Inf.Div. shattered on 16.9.1939 near Rodatycze?") [in:] WPH, no. 1 from February - March 1971, page 422:

"Attached to 96 Reserve IR, I battalion of 98 Reserve IR attacked Czarnokonce from the locality Laszki after 23:00 on 15.09.1939. Czarnokonce were defended by units from motorized regiment SS "Germania". After around one hour of fierce combats, Czarnokonce were captured and inside the village over 60 motorycles with MG trailes, three artillery batteries, 12 AT guns, a dozen or so armoured vehicles and several dozens cars & trucks were captured. The enemy lost 50 KIA or WIA; 2 officers and 13 soldiers were captured. Polish casualties were 2 officers and 30 NCOs and soldiers KIA or WIA, including seriously wounded (later died) commander of 3 company of 98 IR lieutenant Pluta, wounded sub-lieutenant Mazurkiewicz and slightly wounded major St. Marek. Heavy Polish losses were caused by friendly fire of own MGs and mortars of 1. MG company from 98 IR under command of lieutenant Kunicki, which were fireing at Czarnokonce, and didn't know that the 3rd company had already captured this village. This fire was stopped not until the intervention of the battalion commander. After clearing the locality, the battalion marched towards Muzylowice, which were already captured by 49 infantry regiment from 11. ID. General Kazimierz Sosnkowski who was in Muzylowice, after receiving major St. Marek's report about the result of the combat, ordered him to destroy the German equipment captured in Czarnokonce."

And something about combats in Sadowa Wisznia on 13 IX (the main battle against Germania started on 14 IX):

On 13th of September 1939 15th motorcycle company from SS Regiment "Germania", while protecting the road Przemysl - Lwow, captured Sadowa Wisznia. Then it attacked by surprise and captured a Polish 500 men strong battalion which was marching along the road towards the east (although most probably it was a group of reservists not a battalion). During the night from 13th to 14th of September German forces in Sadowa Wisznia were attacked by forward elements of II. and III. from 98 reserve infantry regiment and suffered casualties: 19 killed (mainly from the 3rd platoon), 3 wounded, all motor vehicles of the 3rd platoon, 11 captured (mainly from the 3rd platoon) including the commander of 15th company - Hauptsturmführer Mühlenkamp. Poles reported capturing 11 POWs; recapturing 500 prisoners from German captivity; destroying 8 cars; booty was 12 motorcycles, 2 cars and 2 trucks. Poles didn't report suffering any casualties. Sadowa Wisznia was recaptured.

Source: W. Włodarkiewicz, "Lwów 1939", Warsaw 2003, p. 117 - and in footnotes no. 13 & 14 he provides sources:

- O. Weidinger, "Division Das Reich. Der Weg der 2 Panzer Division Das Reich. Die Geschichte der Stammdivision der Waffen SS", volume I, 1934 - 1939, Osnabruck 1967, pp. 181 - 182
- account of cpt. Jan Wollak, operational officer of 38th Res. Inf.Div., from 11.1945; PDN WIH, sign. II/2/302, p. 14
The guns at the first photo where attacked by polish aircrafts near Jaworow.
In fact they were destroyed by Polish infantry soldiers from 49th Infantry Regiment (from 11th Inf.Div.).

Map from the "Defeat of SS-Standarte Germania" by Col. Bronisław Prugar-Ketling (commander of 11th Inf.Div.):

49 pp = 49th Infantry Regiment:

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The most impotant question is which battery of III./AR.109 was equipped in 10cm K18 guns - 7th, 8th or 9th?

Because if 9th battery had got these guns, then member of your family did not take part in that battle.

Best regards!
Peter

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Edit:
I found a lot of pictures in an old shoe box, but I don`t know where and when this pictures where taken.
I think that I could help in identyfing pictures from Polenfeldzug! :wink:

chris221176
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by chris221176 » 06 Dec 2009 12:43

Hello Peter !

I'm sure that the 9th Battery has got 15 cm sFH and later 21 cm Mörser 18.
It is marked in the Wehrpass.

Below some photos, I think from the campaign in Poland.

Best Regards !
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Peter K
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by Peter K » 06 Dec 2009 13:01

Hi Chris!,

Excellent photos, especially the second one with destroyed German howitzer and captured Polish 75mm guns.

It seems that the gun barrel was burst by hand grenade (so most probably it is one of howitzers from Muzylowice).

And these captured guns are 75mm type 02/26 - equipment of Polish horse artillery and platoons of infantry guns.
Polish soldiers ?
At the beginning I was considering Slovakian soldiers but they have Polish uniforms and hats, not Slovakian.

So probably these photos were captured or taken from some Polish soldier during the campaign.

Best regards!

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hucks216
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by hucks216 » 06 Dec 2009 13:38

I also have a wehrpass to a member of Art Rgt 109, a member of the 4th Batterie although he didn't join it until April 1941. He was Obergefreiter Rudolf Steininger.
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Njorl
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by Njorl » 07 Dec 2009 00:03

Domen121 wrote:And these captured guns are 75mm type 02/26 - equipment of Polish horse artillery and platoons of infantry guns.
Correction, these are 75 mm wz. 97 field cannons (Schneider), typically used in Polish light artillery regiments. There is also a 100 mm wz. 14/19 field howitzer (Skoda) on the photo - see the extreme left part of photograph, behind wz. 97.

Christian, the photograph captioned "15 Kopie" must have been taken in Kielce. The monument in the background is so called "Legionnaire Four".

Regrads,
MJU

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 07 Dec 2009 14:08

Domen... thanks for the description of the attack on the SS Germania Standarte. I'd seen several vague description of this event, but none of the details you provide.

You seem to know a lot about the Polish artillery. Do you have any knowledge of the fire control equipment, or the techniques used for executing and controling the indirect fires? I'm particularly interested in the map, charts, firing tables, and in the procedures for massing multi cannon attacks.

Thanks

nimbuss
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by nimbuss » 07 Dec 2009 21:15

The most impotant question is which battery of III./AR.109 was equipped in 10cm K18 guns - 7th, 8th or 9th?
It was 7./A.R.109.
This battery was sent at 5.00 am on 14.09.39. to KSR10 (to Telatyn). In the evening they were already at Hrubieszów. On 16.09.39. the battery was going together withe 4.le.Div. from Hrubieszów-Uściług area to the Zamość-Tomaszów area.
The guns at the first photo where attacked by polish aircrafts near Jaworow.
Chris, how do You know that? Did You find anything about 9./A.R.109 being attacked by polish aircrafts? Is that written in those pictures or documents? It would be very interesting if You find something written about it. Even if they were not attacked in Mużyłowice, they still coud be attacked a few days befor near Jarosław (on the western side of the San river). I am very curious if You find any memoir of polish airplane attack (even if the date or the place could be mistaken)!!!!

best regards
AG

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peeved
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by peeved » 08 Dec 2009 00:30

Hi Domen,

Judging by the 88s' shields (e.g. shield bottom above fenders) in the Muzylowice photos they are of an early version for Panzerjägers; 8,8-cm-Panzerabwehrkanone (Flak 18). Do you happen to know if the Polish booty included vehicle(s) like in the eBay photo below, the semi-armoured Sd.Kfz. 7 being the usual tow vehicle for these 88s.

Regards,
Markus
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chris221176
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by chris221176 » 08 Dec 2009 11:15

Hello nimbuss !

It is not written down on my photos or documents that 9.AR 109 was attacked near Jaroslaw by polish aircrafts.

It is only a suggestion. I read it on this and on an other forum (http://www.feldgrau.com).
There is a report, that polish airfors flew attacks against german troops with PLZ-P37 bombers.

My problem is that non of my 174 pictures is commented with a date or a location.
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Carl Schwamberger
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 08 Dec 2009 12:28

My first guess is the photos are of the Germania battle. A extremely through examination of the vehicals and buildings may provide some clues. Identification marks on the vehicals or matching terrain maybe found. What I am not seeing are bomb craters that 500 kg or larger bombs would leave. The damage looks more like lighter aircraft bombs, artillery, or grenades & hasty demolition charges laid by infantry & engineers

nimbuss
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Re: III.Artillerie Regiment 109

Post by nimbuss » 08 Dec 2009 13:46

chris221176 wrote:Hello nimbuss !
It is not written down on my photos or documents that 9.AR 109 was attacked near Jaroslaw by polish aircrafts.
It is only a suggestion. I read it on this and on an other forum (http://www.feldgrau.com).
There is a report, that polish airfors flew attacks against german troops with PLZ-P37 bombers.
My problem is that non of my 174 pictures is commented with a date or a location.
Thank You Chris.
So - two more requests:
Could You please write wchich exactly report from feldgrau.com You mean? The site is very big to find it easy...
And do You have any picture that could be crossing the San river by 9./AR109???

Thank You in advance.
AG

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