15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

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jopaerya
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15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by jopaerya » 11 Jan 2010 19:20

Hello

Here a photo of a battery of 4 guns of 152 mm Pushka obr. 1910/30 , it was a Schneider gun
that was exported to Tsarist Russia . During the 1930s this gun was modernised in Russia .
The German name was 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r) .

Photo = Ebay.de

Regards Jos
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Manuferey
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Manuferey » 12 Jan 2010 00:55

Nice picture, thank you Jos !

Here is another picture (from ebay.com) but with a different type of wheels.

I also wonder what was the purpose of the two-piece "moustache" behind the muzzle. :?

Image

Emmanuel

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by ducatim901 » 12 Jan 2010 19:23

Hi Manuferey,
As you know many guns from French origin have that feature, i had the same question.
Maybe it is a part of a construction to lift it easily on board a ship, never seen it in action.
Greetings Jack.

guz84
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by guz84 » 12 Jan 2010 19:56

ducatim901 wrote:Hi Manuferey,
As you know many guns from French origin have that feature, i had the same question.
Maybe it is a part of a construction to lift it easily on board a ship, never seen it in action.
Greetings Jack.


The mention feature is only in use when the gun is in transport position. Heavy guns cannot have all that forward weight during transport. You can find this type of support both on guns where the barrel goes on a separate carriage during transport, as well as on guns where the barrel is pulled back in the carriage with the breach almost at the end of the limber. The front support then engages the cradle and keep the barrel steady during transport.

Greetings guz

jopaerya
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by jopaerya » 12 Jan 2010 20:01

Hello

Maybe it had something to with the 2 loads , to connect or seperate the loads .
Strangely on the blurry photo it looks of the barrel is lying upside down .

Photo = Heavy Artillery from Chamberlain and Gander

Regards Jos
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Manuferey
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Manuferey » 13 Jan 2010 00:34

The original 150 mm Schneider did not have the "mustache". :?

Image

The "mustache" could have had the same purpose as on the French 155 GPF (but I don't know what its exact purpose was on that gun ! :oops: )

Here is a better view of a gun with the plain steel wheels. We can find the same wheels on trailers carrying barrels, for instance for the 203 mm howitzer. Could these steel wheels have been used for the M.1910 guns converted to M.1910/30 while the other more modern wheels were used for newly built M.1910/30 guns? :idea:

Image


Emmanuel

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The Edge
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by The Edge » 13 Jan 2010 00:50

I'm little confused - who used the "the original 150 mm Schneider" gun? :roll: (Since Russia used caliber 152mm)

David Reasoner
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by David Reasoner » 13 Jan 2010 16:49

Manuferey wrote:I also wonder what was the purpose of the two-piece "moustache" behind the muzzle. :?


I suspect it was intended to fit into the grooves on the slide and help support the barrel when it was drawn back out of battery for towing.

David

Edit: Doh! I didn't see that Guz had already mentioned that in his post. :oops:

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by jopaerya » 01 Jan 2011 21:46

Hello

From Ebay a other picture from this gun , as you can see it has the same muzzle brake as the 15.2 cm K.H. 433 (r)

Regards Jos
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SASH155
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by SASH155 » 15 Jan 2011 16:54

Great views of this rare gun. The breech blocks are missing from the guns in the first photo. The so called "moustaches" are sometimes called guide horns. They not only served to locate the ordnance properly in the cradle when the barrel was being installed or removed, but must have served to some degree to guide the barrel as it recoiled in the cradle upon firing. The GPF had guide horns at the interface of the outer jackets, and the must have served just as mentioned above in steadying the ordnance while it was drawn out of battery over the trails for towing. Of course it goes without saying that the French 75mm Mle. 1897 field gun is the most well known example of the use of guide horns on ordnance.

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Sturm78 » 16 Apr 2011 15:44

Hi all,

Another image from Ebay:

Sturm78
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Clive Mortimore
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Clive Mortimore » 02 May 2011 16:32

Hi All

I have been searching the internet for more photos of this weapon and found 2 photos and a drawing showing the guides on the barrel of the 152mm gun model 1910
see
http://militera.lib.ru/h/barsukov_ez2/ill.html
http://asww.org/content/view/114/60/
http://www.szst.ru/library/artmuseum/190_196.php
http://mega.km.ru/weaponry/encyclop.asp?TopicNumber=1554&search=%C3%EE

Wikipedia has done it again. They show a photo which is supposed to be a 152mm gun 1910/30, I think it is a 107mm gun M 1910/30 with solid wheels. Or the shield suggest a 152mm Howitzer M1910/30 with a muzzel brake? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/152_mm_gun_M1910/30

Yours

Clive
Clive

SASH155
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by SASH155 » 02 May 2011 20:46

Yeah, this is what I wrote to the author of the Wikipedia article a couple of years ago:

Incorrect image:
Note to the author: One hates to be the bearer of bad news, but the weapon in these photos seems to actually be a locally produced and substantially modified Putilov 152mm M-1909 field howitzer aka. 152mm Gaubitza obr. 1909g or 152mm Gaubitza obr. 1909/30g. The modification seems to consist primarily in lengthening the barrel and then reinforcing the ordnance at the chase, fitting a multi-baffle muzzle brake (which is indeed similar to, but not identical to that fitted to the ordnance of the actual Soviet M-1910/30 field gun), and adding a substantial counterweight to the breech ring, which is similar to Schneider practice. There is also what appears to be a folding loading tray on top of the counterweight (the cylindrical item above the breech in the bottom photo). It is noteworthy that the original Russian/Soviet Putilov 152mm M-1909/M-1909/30 field howitzer had a distinctive folding loading tray which rested on top of the breech when not in use. The weapon in the photos is marked "152H30" on the back of the shield, which itself is identical to that of the M-1909 howitzer rather than that of the M-1910 or M-1910/30 gun. "H" probably means howitzer in this case, and "30" may denote the year of the modification, and may in fact be an early version of an earlier reported Finnish "M/38" 152mm field howitzer (this latter weapon may in fact just be a captured Soviet 152mm M-1938 (M-10) field howitzer), which is reported to have had a range of 12 kilometers and weighed 4.2 tons (metric tons). The actual M-1910/30 field gun was much larger than the weapon in these photos, with a substantially longer ordnance to which was attached a multi-baffle muzzle brake similar to that used on the later M-1910/34 gun and the M-1937 (ML-20) gun-howitzer; the ordnance of the M-1910/30 field gun also had large guide horns attached near the muzzle just behind the muzzle brake; the ordnance of the M-1910/30 field gun was also characterized by its cylindrical breech ring with no folding loading tray or large counterweight at all, unlike the weapon in these photos; there was also a much more substantial elevation quadrant under the cradle than that of the weapon in these photos, and there were two large (elevation?) handwheels on the right side of the gun with two smaller (traverse?) handwheels on the left; to the left side of the the cradle there was also fitted a substantial recoil shield to protect the gunner from the recoiling ordnance; the gun was also characterized by platforms for the gunners on the trail and wide solid rubber tired five hole disc wheels with bolted rims; the shield was attached to outriggers which held it away from the wheels some 30 cm or so. The M-1910/30 gun, was, as stated in the article, transported in two loads; the weapon in these photos was small enough to be moved in one load. Unfortunately for artillery historians, collectors and aficionados, it is highly unlikely that any examples of this rare weapon survived the war, and good photos of it are almost as rare. Wesley Thomas, Alexandria, Virginia, U.S.A. User:SASH155

Thanks Wesley. One hates to admit, but I should have noted that the gun in the photos looks similar to the 152 mm howitzer M1909/30, and seems small in comparison to 152 mm gun M1910/34, a modernization of the M1910/30 gun. Bukvoed (talk) 07:40, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Clive Mortimore
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Clive Mortimore » 04 May 2011 09:03

Hi Sash

I didn't think it was a m1910/30 gun.

I also think the photo that Emmanuel supplied is of the similar French 155mm L mle 17 ( Scheinder) despite the caption calling it a 150mm.
Clive

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Manuferey
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Manuferey » 05 May 2011 00:25

Clive,

The « 150 » mm gun looks much different from to the 155 M Mle 1917 Schneider: compare the breaches and shields of the 2 guns. On the other hand, the breach and the shield of the « 150 » mm gun look very similar to the 152 mm Russian gun. As in many instances, Schneider designed its guns for export first and usually for Russia, typically as 152 mm (6 inches) and not “150” (I wouldn't trust the caption on the pictures of that time for accurate calibers).

Emmanuel

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