15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

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SASH155
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by SASH155 » 05 May 2011 00:34

Clive, what photo are you referring to that Manuferey supplied? I tried to find it with no luck in the thread.

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Clive Mortimore » 05 May 2011 23:12

SASH155 wrote:Clive, what photo are you referring to that Manuferey supplied? I tried to find it with no luck in the thread.

Hi Sash
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=161869#p1419430 hope this helps.

Manuferey wrote:Clive,

The « 150 » mm gun looks much different from to the 155 M Mle 1917 Schneider: compare the breaches and shields of the 2 guns. On the other hand, the breach and the shield of the « 150 » mm gun look very similar to the 152 mm Russian gun. As in many instances, Schneider designed its guns for export first and usually for Russia, typically as 152 mm (6 inches) and not “150” (I wouldn't trust the caption on the pictures of that time for accurate calibers).

Emmanuel


Hi Emmanuel

On a second look I agree that the gun in the photo is not the 155 L Mle 1917 S but the earlier 155 L Mle 1877/14 S.
155 L Mle 1877-14 Sa.png

see http://lemairesoft.sytes.net:1945/weben/armes/artillerie/7372.html
155 L Mle 1877-14 S.png

http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/thread/1187258754/4th+Turkish-Ottoman+artillery+discussion+threadIf
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by SASH155 » 06 May 2011 00:01

Manu you are correct. BTW: Does anyone know how many, when and from whom the Turks got their 155mm L 77/14S's? Apparently the bottom photo is of one of these guns in Turkish service post 1919. There were only approximately 120 of these guns built, so the French did not have many to spare before the appearance of the L17S and GPF. There is some evidence that a few were used on the Salonika front, and there is even a fairly recent photo of a seriously damaged one abandoned in an old fort in Vietnam that I saw somewhere a few years ago, which may mean that there was at least a battery of these guns in Indo China after the First World War.

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Sturm78 » 22 Sep 2011 23:20

Hi all,

An image of this gun in transport position:

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Sturm78 » 27 Oct 2011 08:41

Hi all,

I found this curious image with a 152mm M1910-30 Russian gun overturned:

Image from Ebay
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Sturm78 » 07 Nov 2011 13:23

Hi all,

I found this small image fon Ebay. I think it is an image of the same scene of the image posted on 16 Apr 2011 in this thread:

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Manuferey » 08 Nov 2011 00:12

Note the two different types of wheels. 8-)

Emmanuel

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Clive Mortimore » 08 Nov 2011 00:32

Manuferey wrote:Note the two different types of wheels. 8-)

Emmanuel


And shield :)
Clive

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Manuferey » 08 Nov 2011 23:48

Thanks Clive !

I wonder if the differences in shields and wheels could have led to two different "Beute" numbers that appear in the following list: :idea:
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1269

15,2 cm K 435 (r) (ex-Russian M-10/30)
15,2 cm K 438 (r) (ex-Russian M-10/30)

Emmanuel

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Clive Mortimore » 09 Nov 2011 00:27

Hi Emmanuel

I have looked up the list that Grigoriy posted http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=180918&hilit=Beute+numbers#p1618559 and this is what his research shows

435 = 15,2cm K 435(r) = 152mm gun M1910, USSR
Source: http://www.juniorgeneral.org/forums/vie ... &start=210
Version: according to Russian books all 152mm M1910 guns were modernised in 1910/30 and 1910/34 version. Maybe another German intellegence mistake.

438 = 15,2cm K 438(r) = 152mm/L29 gun M1910/30 (пушка образца 1910/30 года), USSR (it was on old carriage, and M1910/34 used carriage of 122mm A-19 gun)
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b


I am not sure that the small differences between the wheels and shield would give a second Fremdengerat number but a new carriage will, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/152_mm_gun_M1910/34. As to which number the Germans allocated to either gun I could not say.
Oddly the Wikipedia page allocates the following Fremdengreat number 15.2 cm K 433/2 to the M1910/34. As does Grigoriy
433 = 15,2cm KH 433/1(r) = 152,4mm/L29 gun-howitzer M1937 (пушка-гаубица образца 1937 года, МЛ-20), USSR
= 15,2cm K 433/2(r) = 152,4mm/L29 gun M1910/34 (пушка образца 1910/34 года), USSR


Sorry for the confusing post but do we have two numbers for the M1910/30, 435 and 438 or two numbers for the M1910/34, 433/2 or 438.
Or is more simple, 433/2= M1910/34, 438=M1910/30 and 435=M1910, which none remained in service as they had all be rebuilt, another German intellegence error :? Remember the 15.2 cm K 437(e) was a British 6 inch gun that had been produced in prototype form but never issued.
Clive

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Manuferey » 09 Nov 2011 23:40

Clive Mortimore wrote:Or is more simple, 433/2= M1910/34, 438=M1910/30 and 435=M1910, which none remained in service as they had all be rebuilt, ...


Thanks Clive. This makes the most sense. German Intelligence could have assigned the "435" for the M1910 before all of them had been modernized into M10/30.

Emmanuel

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by peeved » 29 Feb 2012 23:43

From exp. eBay.de.

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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by Sturm78 » 15 May 2012 10:39

Hi all,

An 152mm M1910-30 Soviet gun abandoned. In the foreground, the barrel trailer.

Image from Ebay
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by jopaerya » 05 Aug 2012 10:28

Hello

Two picture's of these russian guns , one from the front and one from the back .
Please note the old wheels just as the picture on page 1 ( Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:46 )

Photo's = Ebay

Regards Jos
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Re: 15.2 cm Kanone 438 (r)

Post by SASH155 » 08 Mar 2013 22:26

Just a thought, but it would seem from these photos of destroyed and captured 152mm M-1910 /30 guns that a lot of the Soviet Army's army and corps level artillery units were overrun between June and September 1941, in spite of the fact that they would have generally been several miles behind the forward line of contact, meaning that the Germans were consistently able to infiltrate deeply behind Soviet lines and get in amongst their gun lines. The photo of the gun with the burning tires was obviously shot only hours after it was overrun; it was obviously in the process of being emplaced when it was attacked (by air)? However, is it possible that the fire was deliberately set by the Sovs. as a way to sabotage the gun? The other photos showing guns missing their breech blocks shows that the Soviet gunners had enough time and presence of mind to get rid of the blocks either by burial or by dumping them in a body of water.

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