Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

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bunker14
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by bunker14 » 26 Sep 2013 16:40

I answer in French because my English is very bad

If someone can translate?

Le premier Tobrouk est de forme carré avec une Coupole.

Le second Tobrouk (celui de la photo) a bien eu une coupole mais juste posée, sans béton pour la fixer.

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dirk Peeters
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by dirk Peeters » 26 Sep 2013 16:43

OK j ai compris

Ronguild
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by Ronguild » 26 Sep 2013 17:45

bunker14 wrote:I answer in French because my English is very bad

If someone can translate?

Le premier Tobrouk est de forme carré avec une Coupole.

Le second Tobrouk (celui de la photo) a bien eu une coupole mais juste posée, sans béton pour la fixer.
First tobruk is square with a cupola.
The second (the one of the picture) had a copula which was not fixed with concrete

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moonraker
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by moonraker » 26 Sep 2013 18:15

hi,
but how do you know that the bell is raised without sealer ??

best regards

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bunker14
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by bunker14 » 26 Sep 2013 19:44

hi

with aerial pictures and canadian document

bregs

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moonraker
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by moonraker » 26 Sep 2013 22:14

good thank

best regards

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dirk Peeters
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by dirk Peeters » 26 Sep 2013 22:20

OK if you say so it s clear . canadian documents
Thanks
Dirk

dterrier
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by dterrier » 27 Sep 2013 08:40

Hoi,

The exact position of the To with kleinstglocke of Mont-Fleury can be found at GSGS 923864.
Using this website http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-welcome.php the coordinate in google earth can be found.

Translator : put in = vT923864 , result : 49°20'32'' - 0°31'19""

On google earth :

Image


This is between Wn33 and Wn34.
I have found nothing until now.

Grtz,

Dirk T.

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dirk Peeters
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by dirk Peeters » 27 Sep 2013 09:03

this is another position ... it s not easy ..
Would like to see some pictures where we can pinpoint them
There must be some evidence that is used in the book
Thanks Dirk

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dirk Peeters
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by dirk Peeters » 27 Sep 2013 10:10

another thing
again the english picture
Tobruk 05 00.jpg
here a picture of another tobruk but constructed with formsteine
00 tobruk formsteinea.jpg
your opinion
does they appaer the same or is the photo with cuppola not longer ?
Thanks for answering
Dirk
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Natter
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by Natter » 08 Apr 2015 12:44

How about the tobruks (Rs58c) with similar cupolas made of concrete in Hirtshals?

Photos/discussions in the norwegian kystfort-forum:
http://www.kystfort.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6519
http://www.kystfort.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6331

EDIT: I attached a photo from the first link above (it was taken and posted by Yngvar)
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dirk Peeters
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by dirk Peeters » 08 Apr 2015 15:51

we have measured them in Hirsthals
we could not say they are the same
in Hirsthals they are rotating
Dirk

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Natter
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by Natter » 08 Apr 2015 19:13

dirk Peeters wrote:in Hirsthals they are rotating
That's interesting. Any idea of the purpose of these? Although the cupola rotating would compensate for the small opening (the large one, not those for observation), but still I can't see how a MG and crew would "fit" inside..?
According to the info given by the museum, there were mortars here - could it be used with a 5cm festungsgranatenwerfer?

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TH
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by TH » 08 Apr 2015 22:32

Doubt it was for mortar. The firing angle would have been very limited and mortar crews were already decently protected simply by their low position.
From the inside these cupolas are bigger than they look - I think there was enough room for an lMG mount (see combination of Lars' drawing and 944S6 below).
mgrs.jpg
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Natter
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Re: Tobruk with Kleinstglocke

Post by Natter » 08 Apr 2015 23:18

TH wrote:Doubt it was for mortar. The firing angle would have been very limited and mortar crews were already decently protected simply by their low position.
Yes, that makes sense.
TH wrote:From the inside these cupolas are bigger than they look - I think there was enough room for an lMG mount (see combination of Lars' drawing and 944S6 below).
My opinion was that it's to thight for the gunner to operate the MG, not to mention the loader as well. I'm not 100% convinced by the drawing in that respect, but I haven't been inside the bunker, nor taken measurements, so I'm not gonna argue against those who have :-)

Thanks!
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