21 cm Mörser 18
Re: 21cm Mörser 18
Hello Uwe ; thanks for your feedback, fully appreciated..........Yes, I took a deeper look at the first picture and it resemble a 15 cm K18, nevertheless I found the following:
Art.Abt. 604
Heeres-Art.Abt. 604 (10 Jun 1944)
2 Aug 39 formed with one 15cm Kanone and two 21cm Mörser batteries
1 Sep 39 II Corps, 4th Army, Army Group North.
Art.Abt. 607
III./Heeres-Artillerie-Brigade 959 (25 Jun 1944)
1 Aug 39 formed with one 15cm Kanone and two 21cm Mörser batteries
1 Sep 39 VIII Corps, 14th Army, Army Group South
23 Sep 39 8th Army, Army Group South, assault on Warsaw.
Source: http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/artillery.html#601
http://www.deutsche-artillerie.de/Gesch ... lerie.html
I do not know for sure whether those 15 cm K were K16 or K18. TIA. Cheers. Raúl M .
Art.Abt. 604
Heeres-Art.Abt. 604 (10 Jun 1944)
2 Aug 39 formed with one 15cm Kanone and two 21cm Mörser batteries
1 Sep 39 II Corps, 4th Army, Army Group North.
Art.Abt. 607
III./Heeres-Artillerie-Brigade 959 (25 Jun 1944)
1 Aug 39 formed with one 15cm Kanone and two 21cm Mörser batteries
1 Sep 39 VIII Corps, 14th Army, Army Group South
23 Sep 39 8th Army, Army Group South, assault on Warsaw.
Source: http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/artillery.html#601
http://www.deutsche-artillerie.de/Gesch ... lerie.html
I do not know for sure whether those 15 cm K were K16 or K18. TIA. Cheers. Raúl M .
Re: 21cm Mörser 18
Uwe,schwarzermai wrote:above is a photo from 1941 - it's 3./s.Art.Abt.(mot.) 680 and shows 15cm K.18
Uwe
The guns are not 15 cm K18. The "shock absorbers" are located behind the wheels, a typical feature of the 21 Mrs 18 (and 17 cm K18). On the 15 cm K18, the "shock absorbers" are located just in front of the wheels.
Emmanuel
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18
Emmanuel
i wrote just for the photo above only, not the 2nd photo down under
above is a photo from 1941 - it's 3./s.Art.Abt.(mot.) 680 and shows 15cm K.18
see here please
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1794915
anyway - no Mrs.18 in Poland 1939 in action
Uwe
i wrote just for the photo above only, not the 2nd photo down under
above is a photo from 1941 - it's 3./s.Art.Abt.(mot.) 680 and shows 15cm K.18
see here please
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1794915
anyway - no Mrs.18 in Poland 1939 in action
Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: 21cm Mörser 18
This is from Lexikon der Wehrmacht:
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... bitzen.htm
Production in 1939 in total: 58Ab 1939 wurde der neue 21-cm-Mörser 18 eingeführt, der den langen 21-cm Mörser ersetzte, der aber bis 1942 noch bei der Truppe blieb. Bei Kriegsausbruch waren 27 Stück bei der Truppe, dazu 8300 Schuß Munition.
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... bitzen.htm
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18
as you can see here - 604 and 607
at May 15th 1940 : each 1st battery = s.10cm K.18 and 2nd + 3rd batteries = 3x lg.21cm Mrs.
at July 13th 1940: all 3 batteries had lg. 21cm Mrs.
at May 15th 1940 : each 1st battery = s.10cm K.18 and 2nd + 3rd batteries = 3x lg.21cm Mrs.
at July 13th 1940: all 3 batteries had lg. 21cm Mrs.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
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My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18
I think there are two different questions here:
1) Were any 21cm Moerser lang with units in September 1939; and
2) Were any 21cm Moerser lang in action during the Polish campaign
1) Were any 21cm Moerser lang with units in September 1939; and
2) Were any 21cm Moerser lang in action during the Polish campaign
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18
the one and only question is:
were 21cm Mörser 18 in action against poland in 1939?
answer: no
were 21cm Mörser 18 in action against poland in 1939?
answer: no
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: 21cm Mörser 18
Well it was you who said:
So I now take it that only referred to units active in the Polish campaign? In which case, thanks for the clarification.
This can be read that no units in Poland had the gun, or no unit at all had it and it wasn't in active service at the time.schwarzermai wrote:in Poland were no 21cm Mrs.18 in action - no units already had this weapon at this time...
So I now take it that only referred to units active in the Polish campaign? In which case, thanks for the clarification.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
Re: 21cm Mörser 18
Thanks to all (especially Uwe) for shedding light on this . Cheers. Raúl M .
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18
hello - it is not easy to find in a foreign language, the right words and the right expressionUrmel wrote:
So I now take it that only referred to units active in the Polish campaign? In which case, thanks for the clarification.
the first units with 21cm Mörser 18 were
schwere Batterien (mot.) 691 and 692
both creation at Sep 10th 1939 at wehrkreis III at Jüterbog
(both missing here
http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/artillery.html#Batt)
Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: 21cm Mörser 18
Understood about the language, hence my request for clarification. The information you provided is great, many thanks for that! So the first combat use of the 21cm Moerser 18 would have been on the Grebbe Line then I presume?
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42