21 cm Mörser 18

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tigre
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by tigre » 14 Jun 2014 13:50

Hello Uwe :D; thanks for your feedback, fully appreciated..........Yes, I took a deeper look at the first picture and it resemble a 15 cm K18, nevertheless I found the following:

Art.Abt. 604
Heeres-Art.Abt. 604 (10 Jun 1944)
2 Aug 39 formed with one 15cm Kanone and two 21cm Mörser batteries
1 Sep 39 II Corps, 4th Army, Army Group North.

Art.Abt. 607
III./Heeres-Artillerie-Brigade 959 (25 Jun 1944)
1 Aug 39 formed with one 15cm Kanone and two 21cm Mörser batteries
1 Sep 39 VIII Corps, 14th Army, Army Group South
23 Sep 39 8th Army, Army Group South, assault on Warsaw.

Source: http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/artillery.html#601
http://www.deutsche-artillerie.de/Gesch ... lerie.html

I do not know for sure whether those 15 cm K were K16 or K18. TIA. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Manuferey
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by Manuferey » 14 Jun 2014 14:02

schwarzermai wrote:above is a photo from 1941 - it's 3./s.Art.Abt.(mot.) 680 and shows 15cm K.18
Uwe
Uwe,

The guns are not 15 cm K18. The "shock absorbers" are located behind the wheels, a typical feature of the 21 Mrs 18 (and 17 cm K18). On the 15 cm K18, the "shock absorbers" are located just in front of the wheels.

Emmanuel

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schwarzermai
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by schwarzermai » 14 Jun 2014 14:58

Emmanuel

i wrote just for the photo above only, not the 2nd photo down under

above is a photo from 1941 - it's 3./s.Art.Abt.(mot.) 680 and shows 15cm K.18

see here please
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1794915

anyway - no Mrs.18 in Poland 1939 in action

Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=112552&start=195#p2028003

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Urmel
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by Urmel » 14 Jun 2014 15:44

This is from Lexikon der Wehrmacht:
Ab 1939 wurde der neue 21-cm-Mörser 18 eingeführt, der den langen 21-cm Mörser ersetzte, der aber bis 1942 noch bei der Truppe blieb. Bei Kriegsausbruch waren 27 Stück bei der Truppe, dazu 8300 Schuß Munition.
Production in 1939 in total: 58

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... bitzen.htm
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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schwarzermai
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by schwarzermai » 14 Jun 2014 15:55

as you can see here - 604 and 607

at May 15th 1940 : each 1st battery = s.10cm K.18 and 2nd + 3rd batteries = 3x lg.21cm Mrs.
at July 13th 1940: all 3 batteries had lg. 21cm Mrs.

Image
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=112552&start=195#p2028003

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

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Urmel
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by Urmel » 14 Jun 2014 16:53

I think there are two different questions here:

1) Were any 21cm Moerser lang with units in September 1939; and
2) Were any 21cm Moerser lang in action during the Polish campaign
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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schwarzermai
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by schwarzermai » 14 Jun 2014 16:59

the one and only question is:

were 21cm Mörser 18 in action against poland in 1939?

answer: no
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=112552&start=195#p2028003

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Urmel
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by Urmel » 14 Jun 2014 19:55

Well it was you who said:
schwarzermai wrote:in Poland were no 21cm Mrs.18 in action - no units already had this weapon at this time...
This can be read that no units in Poland had the gun, or no unit at all had it and it wasn't in active service at the time.

So I now take it that only referred to units active in the Polish campaign? In which case, thanks for the clarification.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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tigre
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by tigre » 14 Jun 2014 19:56

Thanks to all (especially Uwe) for shedding light on this :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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schwarzermai
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by schwarzermai » 15 Jun 2014 09:08

Urmel wrote:
So I now take it that only referred to units active in the Polish campaign? In which case, thanks for the clarification.
hello - it is not easy to find in a foreign language, the right words and the right expression

the first units with 21cm Mörser 18 were

schwere Batterien (mot.) 691 and 692
both creation at Sep 10th 1939 at wehrkreis III at Jüterbog
(both missing here
http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/artillery.html#Batt)

Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=112552&start=195#p2028003

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Urmel
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by Urmel » 15 Jun 2014 10:17

Understood about the language, hence my request for clarification. The information you provided is great, many thanks for that! So the first combat use of the 21cm Moerser 18 would have been on the Grebbe Line then I presume?
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

jopaerya
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by jopaerya » 21 Jul 2014 18:34

Could this be a 21 cm Mörser , picture is from Ebay .

Regards Jos
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Sturm78
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by Sturm78 » 03 Dec 2014 11:52

Hi all,

A PK image:

Image from EBay
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by Sturm78 » 08 Dec 2014 10:57

Hi all,

An image in colour:

Image from EBay
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Re: 21cm Mörser 18

Post by Sturm78 » 26 Feb 2015 14:29

Hi all,

Carriage trailer:

Image from EBay
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