Italian coast gun

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
Sturm78
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by Sturm78 » 16 May 2020 13:24

ROLAND1369 wrote
From the recoil system and sighting bar this is one of a number of US 5 inch 51 caliber weapons supplied to the Italians during WW I.
Hi ROLAND1369

Ummmhh,....the 127mm 5in L51 gun seems to have two very long recoil cylinders under the gun barrel. See http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-51_mk7.php.

The gun of my image have shorter recoil cylinders...Perhaps an 127mm 5in L50 Mk.5 or Mk.6 ?? :?
Accornding to IWM photo caption is a 152mm 6in gun but it is possible that this can be wrong... :roll:

Sturm78

ROLAND1369
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by ROLAND1369 » 16 May 2020 15:39

No it is a 5 in 51. Depending on the mount long and short recoil cylinders are possible. The guns sent to Italy were 5 inch 51s. See drawings and Pic.
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ROLAND1369
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by ROLAND1369 » 16 May 2020 15:49

If you go down to the bottom of the Navweaps Page you quoted to the pics of guns on the Arkansas and Texas you will also see short recoil 5 inch 51s.

shultz
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by shultz » 16 May 2020 16:38

Hi everyone, I want to tell an anecdote from the First World War.
In 1911 Ansaldo of Genoa was building a small armored cruiser for Turkey; the guns would have been "Armstrong Pozzuoli", 2 152/50 A.1913 and 8 120/45 A.1913. At the outbreak of the Libyan war the ship was almost ready and was requisitioned by Italy, which put it into service with the name "Libia".
During the First World War, due to the lack of heavy cannons, the two 152/50 A.1913 were landed and placed in defense of Venice (Italy had no other cannons of this model that Armstrong produced in Pozzuoli for the ships sold at 'abroad).
Now, a short time ago I found these photos on the site "www.14-18.it" (but I also saw them on another site) and the caption said "Turkish cannon in Punta Sdobba (Venice Lagoon)"; it should be one of those two 152/50 A.1913 cannons.
152-50 A1913 cannone turco a Punta Sdobba a.PNG
152-50 A1913 cannone turco a Punta Sdobba b.PNG
I also put an extract from an official list of the Royal Navy of 1919, which says that only one copy had been saved. After the war on the ship "Libia" they were replaced by two other 120/45.
from a Regia Marina 1919 manual.jpg
Regards.
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Sturm78
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by Sturm78 » 16 May 2020 17:44

ROLAND1369 wrote
No it is a 5 in 51. Depending on the mount long and short recoil cylinders are possible. The guns sent to Italy were 5 inch 51s. See drawings and Pic.
Thanks, ROLAND1369 . I forget the great diversity of mounts used for the same gun in the US Navy... :oops:

Regards
Sturm78

ROLAND1369
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by ROLAND1369 » 18 May 2020 15:38

I have examined my photos and note that the 5 inch 51 with the long recoil system was mounted on the Clemson group of us 4 stack destroyers during WW I. This group carried 5 inch 51s in place of the normal 4 inch 50s to counter the large German cruiser submarines mounting 5.9 inch deck guns. I have no technical documents but would suppose that the longer recoil cylinders would provide less transfer of stress to the more lightly built destroyers, gunboats, and auxiliaries on which this weapon was mounted. The short recoil 5 inch 51s seem to have been mounted on battleships where stress reduction was not as important. The later" Wet" guns for submarines were also long recoil cylinder guns. As these were replacing 3 inch guns stress reduction on these hulls would have been of importance.

BOBOMAN
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by BOBOMAN » 23 May 2020 00:51

jopaerya wrote:
17 Apr 2020 11:12
Thanks Emmanuel

For the correct name of this gun , this gun was not used in San Remo , the Bat. Mameli in Pegli had the same type of guns.

Regards Jos
Funny how it's a really small world, it's now some weeks that I was looking to identify the gun in these photos, and here I find the photos with the ID of the guns.
So saved myself in posting.
It's written on a previous post that there weren't any big caliber guns in San Remo, how can you state this?
Have you any list, document stating this, is there a list of the artillery and coastal positions with which San Remo was defended?
If yes I would be delighted if you could share a copy with me, really interested.
For what is in my knowledge all these negatives belonged to a KM veteran stationed in San Remo.
Many other photos picture the same personnel in identified San Remo landmarks.

jopaerya
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by jopaerya » 23 May 2020 08:15

First :welcome:

Here a list from 10-08-1944 from the site Germandocsinrussia.com with the guns at St.Remo .
Could be that troops were used and transferred in the same Marine Artillery unit 619 , I also
saw the photo's of the 7.6 cm 76/40 (i)

Regards Jos
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shultz
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by shultz » 23 May 2020 11:21

Sturm78 wrote:
16 May 2020 17:44
ROLAND1369 wrote
No it is a 5 in 51. Depending on the mount long and short recoil cylinders are possible. The guns sent to Italy were 5 inch 51s. See drawings and Pic.
Thanks, ROLAND1369 . I forget the great diversity of mounts used for the same gun in the US Navy... :oops:

Regards
Sturm78
Hi Sturm & Roland, I found an official drawing of the 127/51 S.U. cannon 1917 (from the book "L'artiglieria Italiana nella grande guerra, of Curami & Massignani").
127-51 S.U. 1917 da L'artiglieria Italiana nella grande guerra .jpg
Regards.
Shultz
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Sturm78
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by Sturm78 » 23 May 2020 15:18

Thanks for the image and containing information, schultz.. :wink:

It seems that Venice should be one of the cities with the best coastal defenses during World War I....

Sturm78

shultz
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by shultz » 23 May 2020 15:48

Sturm78 wrote:
23 May 2020 15:18
Thanks for the image and containing information, schultz.. :wink:

It seems that Venice should be one of the cities with the best coastal defenses during World War I....

Sturm78
Yes, fixed forts and field fortifications, and also many floating batteries, hidden in the canals of the northern side of the Venice lagoon. In 1917, after Caporetto's retreat, from the central square of Venice to the Piave river where the front was, there were less than thirty kilometers.
Shultz

Sturm78
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by Sturm78 » 24 May 2020 10:50

Hi all

I would say another 152mm Italian coast gun. Perhaps 152mm L50 Vickers Terni Mod.1913 R.E. ??


Image from Ebay
Sturm78
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shultz
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by shultz » 24 May 2020 14:15

Sturm78 wrote:
24 May 2020 10:50
Hi all

I would say another 152mm Italian coast gun. Perhaps 152mm L50 Vickers Terni Mod.1913 R.E. ??


Image from Ebay
Sturm78
Hi, this is a 152/40.
The round section lever/handle on the breech head is typical of 152/40 Italian guns ; when the breech is closed the handle folds upwards.
The gunners are sailors, probably in Lero (there were two batteries with this gun, very photographed) ; the carriage is one of the many produced after the end of WW1.
Regards, Shultz

shultz
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by shultz » 24 May 2020 14:35

Hi Sturm , Well, the handle folds DOWNWARDS.
This is a "Regia Marina" drawing.
152-40.PNG
"sopraelevato a 26°(raised to 26°)" indicates the addition of the 500mm high base to increase the elevation to 26° and therefore increase the range.
Regards
Shultz
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Sturm78
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Re: Italian coast gun

Post by Sturm78 » 26 May 2020 17:13

shultz wrote
Hi, this is a 152/40.
The round section lever/handle on the breech head is typical of 152/40 Italian guns ; when the breech is closed the handle folds upwards.
The gunners are sailors, probably in Lero (there were two batteries with this gun, very photographed) ; the carriage is one of the many produced after the end of WW1.
Thanks, shultz :wink:
Armstrong 1891....A very old gun design indeed

Sturm78

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