Bauformen

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jopaerya
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Bauformen

Post by jopaerya » 24 Jul 2010 18:47

Hello All

Here a list of all the Bauformen ( Alt ) numbers that I have found , later in the war these
Bauformen ( 200 ) were renumbered . Who has more numbers to make this list complete ?


BAUFORMEN ALT

Bauform 30 = Stand fur Unterstellraum fur Fullwagen u Flammenwerfer- Ringstand
Bauform 31 = Stand fur Ausfullraum u. Flammenwerfer-Ringstand
Bauform 51 a = Halbgruppenunterstand
Bauform 52 a = Gruppenunterstand
Bauform 53 a = Pak-Unterstellraum
Bauform 54 a = Pak-Unterstellraum mit Unterkunft
Bauform 55 = Beob. Stand in V.F.
Bauform 56 a = Artl.Beob.Stand mit Planraum
Bauform 57 a = Fuhrungsstand oder Sanitatsraum
Bauform 57 m = Luftungsbeispiel
Bauform 58 c = 80 cm Ringstand
Bauform 58 d = 80 cm Ringstand
Bauform 59 a = U.Stand mit Ringstand
Bauform 61 a = Ringstand fur 5 cm Festungsgranatwerfer (f)
Bauform 64 a = Ringstand fur mittl.Flammmenwerfer oder M.G.
Bauform 65 a = Ringstand fur 5 cm KwK
Bauform 66 = Geschutzstand fur 5 cm KwK mit Muni und Mannschaftunterstand
Bauform 67 = Ringstande fur Kampfwagenturme
Bauform 68 = Ringstand fur 3.7 cm Panzerabwehrwerfer (t)
Bauform 69 = Ringstand fur s. Granatwerfer 34
Bauform 70 = Ringstand fur 2 cm Flak im Panzerturm
Bauform 71 = Ringstand fur 15.2 cm F.H. 433 (r)
Bauform 72 = Ringstand fur 10.5 cm K 331 (f)
Bauform 73 = Geschutzringstand f. mittl. Sockel lafette IV
Bauform 74 = Ringstand fur 10.5 cm K 332 (f)
Bauform 75 = Stand fur Lichtsprechgerate 60/50 u. 80/80
Bauform 76 = Stand fur Lichtsprechgerate 250/130
Bauform 77 = Stand fur M.G. Dreh haube 4007 u. 4010
Bauform 79 = Feldm.Bettung in Beton fur s.Gr.W. 42 ( 12 cm )
Bauform 80 = Ringstand fur 2 cm Flak 30
Bauform 81 = Ringstand fur 10.5 cm K 338 (i)
Bauform 82 = Ringstand fur Flak 76/40 (i) Model l 17 u. 76/45 (i)
Bauform 83 = Ringstand fur Flak 75/46 (i) u. 76/40 (i) Model l 35
Bauform 84 = Ringstand fur 8.8 cm PaK 43
Bauform 86 = Ringstand fur 15.5 cm s.F.H. 414 (f)

Regards Jos

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stril
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Re: Bauformen

Post by stril » 26 Jul 2010 14:16

Hello
Could be interesting to see these baurformen in photos too. Perhpas they could be posted here ? Caould add some myself, Vf30, Vf56a, Vf57a, Vf59a and others if there is some interest.
regards
stril

herring
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Re: Bauformen

Post by herring » 26 Jul 2010 22:07

Are you intending to include in the list also numbers 1 - 26?

regards

jopaerya
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Re: Bauformen

Post by jopaerya » 27 Jul 2010 06:03

@ Hi Stril , looks to me a good idea
@ Hi Herring , I don't have the drawings or know the function of the Bauform 1- 26 .

Regards Jos

herring
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Re: Bauformen

Post by herring » 27 Jul 2010 14:54

Hello,

I mean numbers from 1 to 26.
Please look at the top of the list at page:
http://www.bunkers.be/index.php?option= ... 38&lang=en

jopaerya
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Re: Bauformen

Post by jopaerya » 27 Jul 2010 15:24

Hello Herring

I am not so sure that the V.F.designs are the same as the Bauformen .
Most bunkers from the V.F. line are under the 8 only one exeption V.F. 25
on all original documents you will find them as V.F. 1a and not as Bauform 1a
also with the Bauformen allways Bauform 58 , never as V.F. 58 .

Regards Jos

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Bauformen

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 27 Jul 2010 15:25

Hi,

some are here: http://www.fortiff.be/regelbau/index.php?p=244

Brgds
@ndrew

jopaerya
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Re: Bauformen

Post by jopaerya » 27 Jul 2010 15:36

Here a other example V.F. means Verstarkt Feldmassig only walls of 1.00 meter
Splittersicher and 2.00 meter Schusssicher reinforced with steel .

The walls of most Bauformen are not 1.00 meter .

Regards Jos
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pierrot
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Re: Bauformen

Post by pierrot » 27 Jul 2010 16:53

That's a very common question that comes and goes on many forum. As long I'm busy with bunkerarcheology,I have always heard talking about VF58 for the tobruk but as Jos, I think we must base our opinion on material proof like original German documents. The very first authors who wrote books about the AW didn't have all the informations that we have today, so it's normal that sometimes an error or misinterpretation occured. Thousands of those books were sold, and those books were used as main source of information by the second wave of authors, on Websites and so on...
The same story happened with the R that we find before the Regelbau of the Heer (in France, they even sometimes use H as prefix), there again, not really a German material evidence of such a use but its very common to use it.
I 'm fighting already years to impose the correct names of some strongpoints in my sector (Belgium) but even when you show the right document, you find the old wrong name coming back again and again (like Stp Schlieffen and Stp Schröffer). Once something is written down in a book or a website, it will be spread around the world whatever the information is right or wrong. We must accept that errors can be present in the books but most of the time these are just "Peanuts" compared to the High Quality of information that Authors like R.Rolf, A.Chazette, D.Peeters (and all the others :wink: )can provide to our bunker friends community.

VF is always with walls and roof of 1m or more (most of the time in not reinforced concrete).
Bauform is a terminology for a specific model, but we can have bauform build in Verstärk Feldmassig (so walls of 1m) but they however keep the Bauform appelation. As Jos wrote hereabove, we can only use officially the appelation VF for the 7 first numbers (VF1 till VF7)

Hereunder a drawing of a Bauform 66 (in Verst.Feldmassig, but note that the name is not changed however into VF66!)
On another drawing (sorry I do not succede in posting a PDF in attchment!) from Typenheft für die Erkundung der verstarkt feldmassigen Ausbaues in Beton dated march 1942, the tobruk for French tank Turret is depicted asVF25 that confirms that there are always exceptions or that sometimes even the Germans can make errors in their documents...

Greetings

Pierrot
Bauform 66.jpg

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stril
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Re: Bauformen

Post by stril » 27 Jul 2010 19:16

Hello
Im not sure if i understand the discussion, but from german lists from 1944 there is Vf58c, Vf57a/Vf57m mentioned.
In Rudi Rolfs "atlantikwall" there is some info to be found in the text, but also if you look in the footnotes there is some useful reference to german documents and the Vf/bauformen.
regards
stril

jopaerya
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Re: Bauformen

Post by jopaerya » 27 Jul 2010 19:23

Hi Stril

If we take it strickly V.F. means 1.00 meter walls or bigger , maybe the V.F.58 has walls of 1.00 meter .
But as Pierrot stated there will allways a exception(s) on the rule , most of the Ringstanden have only walls
of 40 cm concrete ( this could not be Verstarkt Feldmassig )

Regards Jos
Last edited by jopaerya on 28 Jul 2010 06:00, edited 1 time in total.

herring
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Re: Bauformen

Post by herring » 27 Jul 2010 22:33

It looks a bit messy indeed...

Rudi Rolf in "Atlantikwall" calls all types 1 - 86 as VF. I would be especially interested in seeing plans of VF8 - looks like a predecessor of Bauform 58. What wall thickness does it have?

jopaerya
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Re: Bauformen

Post by jopaerya » 28 Jul 2010 16:09

Hello

Yes , the V.F.8 would be very interesting to see what it looks like . Also nice to see
that the V.F.25 is called "Fundament fur Pz.K.Wg. Turme" so no Ringstand or Tobruk .

Regards Jos

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Bauformen

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 29 Jul 2010 04:21

Hi,

for me VF8 is interesting too.
Also nice to see that the V.F.25 is called "Fundament fur Pz.K.Wg. Turme" so no Ringstand or Tobruk
Hope this drawing is what You're looking for.

Brgds
@ndrew
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SES
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Re: Bauformen

Post by SES » 29 Jul 2010 09:20

Hi,
The measurements are a bit hard to read, but AFAICT the wall thickness is 40 cm and it is classified as a Vf ???????????????
bregds
SES

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