Info: Army Vs Navy coastal artillery

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Erik E
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Info: Army Vs Navy coastal artillery

Post by Erik E » 22 Feb 2003 22:03

My exploring of many German coastal artillery sites has shown me the main differences in the construction of their batteries.

As I have explained in the bunker article on Third Reich Factbook, the first thing you notice is the shapes of the buildings.

I thought I would bring this subject one step further, by also taking a look on the gunpositions:

I`ll start with the smallest, and see how far I get :D

These first 3 photos shows positions for 20mm Flak guns, used by the Heer. Notice that the mounting are made to hold the regular tripod.
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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 22 Feb 2003 22:07

And if we now turn to the Navy flak posititions, you will see that the guns were bolted into the concrete, just like it was on a ship!
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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 22 Feb 2003 22:14

The same differences rages all the way up to 88mm Flak guns as well!
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Xavier
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...

Post by Xavier » 22 Feb 2003 22:18

it may have to be with all army guns being mobile and all navy guns affixed to decks (original configuration....)

a former navy gun must have been mounted on a pedestal, never intended to be "moved around" hence the base configuration.....

besides that coment ...nicee picutures!!
(all the green!!!)

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Xavier

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 22 Feb 2003 22:23

And of course :D

The Heer wanted to use the regular field artillery. In order to turn them, special mounting frames were made. The gun was placed inside the frame, which again was attached to a single axle in the concrete.
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Post by Erik E » 22 Feb 2003 22:32

.....While the navy wanted to use their bolted guns here as well....
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Post by Erik E » 22 Feb 2003 22:39

it may have to be with all army guns being mobile and all navy guns affixed to decks (original configuration....)


Seems like Xavier explained the reason before I was finished with my posts :D

It all goes back to the training. The Heer was trained with moveable equipment like the Flak guns and the field artillery. The Navy was of course trained on ships.
In some large batteries, the main guns were operated by the navy, the airdefence by Luftwaffe and the close defence by the Heer. These batteries are very interesting to explore, as they show 3 different construction styles!

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Madsen
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Post by Madsen » 23 Feb 2003 12:59

About two hours south of me there is a army Coastal battery, with guns and bunkers intact(some of them). I'll try to take pictures of it the next time i'm passing by. I think the name is "Grønsvik fort" in Norwegian.

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Post by Erik E » 23 Feb 2003 19:31

Hallo Lillebror!

Sounds interesting! Do you know the German name for the battery, or could you explain the location so I can find it on a map???

Erik

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 23 Feb 2003 23:37

I forgot to add that the Heer started using pedestal mounted guns in a later stage of the war. They became easier to operate, and the aiming was a lot faster.........

Erik

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Post by Madsen » 24 Feb 2003 17:38

Hi Erik.
Sorry i dont know the german name for it. But if you find R17(kystriksveien) on a map in the area outside Mo i Rana then it is located just north of a place called Stokkvågen. There is a ferry route from Stokkvågen. It's so close to the road that you can see on of the cannons from the road. i think the guns are in 15cm class.(Eye measured some years ago) We also had one in my Home county Gildeskål. There it's Naval guns. still operatable. it's sited on Arnøy southwest of Bodø. there was 4 guns but one is now moved to Oscarsborg in Drøbaksundet, you know Blücher! the other three is still one the location there

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Post by Andy H » 26 Feb 2003 01:29

Eric

This may sound strange but the posistions were built orginally and units were assigned I presume accordingly, but units move, so it would possible that naval art personnel were moved to positions previously manned by Heer art personnel and vica-versa, which would then entail them using weapons mounted differently to how they had been taught.

Andy

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 28 Feb 2003 20:23

Hello Andy!

I agree with what you`re saying. there are no rules without exeption as you know :D
I have seen a few batteries which were built by the navy and later manned by the heer, but there is not too many of them.

Another example I have, the navy used railwayguns for coastal artilley!
That is really a strange combination 8)
"Deutche Eisenbahnmarine" :D :D :D

EE

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Post by Madsen » 22 Mar 2003 13:41

when i see your pic of german armyFLAK i wonder about one thing.
A FLAK gun is intended to turn around on its own axle. why did they then made foundations in concrete to place them in? why not just a flat concrete area to set them up on, instead of making the 3 hole foundation?
The gunsa at Grønsvik is mounted with the wheels on. it looks that they turn around on their own wheels

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Post by Erik E » 22 Mar 2003 21:58

I guess the holes is to prevent the gun from moving out of position when fireing. Especially at direct fire, the recoil would probably be strong enough to move the gun!

Many of these Flak positions ar in very remote and rough terrain. Often the guns were brought to the bunker in pieces and assembled there.
Wheels would also be useless on the top of a mountain :D

In bunkers lying close to roads, or in flat terrain, there is often just a flat concrete slab like you have seen, or no concrete at all......

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