Question: german radars in Italy

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SES
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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#16

Post by SES » 18 Sep 2010, 23:01

Valtoro wrote:Don't know how helpful these scans are, but here they are. Taken from "Air war Italy 1944-45" (1996) by Nick Beale, Ferdinando D’Amico and Gabriele Valentini.

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/8718 ... sitaly.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6549 ... gitaly.jpg
Thanks a lot. Coincides to some extent with what I have on:
http://www.gyges.dk/Flum%20Med%208.pdf
but as DH said not quite complete.
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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#17

Post by jopaerya » 19 Sep 2010, 16:59

Hello D.H.

I have found a reference that there was a Gemma radar ( sorry , no exact type ) beside the W.R. at Monte Moro .

Here some more from what I have found in K.T.B. SeeKo Ital. Riviera

13-07-1944 23.53
M.K.B. Monte Moro I ( 4 rounds ) and Chiappa ( 5 rounds ) fired on target found by Fu.M.O.214

07-1944
Fu.M.O. Punta Ala was transferred to Nervi ( Monte Moro )
Fu.M.O. Punta Falcone was transferred to Bordighera
Fu.M.O. Livorno was transferred to La Spezia

Fu.M.B. Elba was transferred to Bordighera
Fu.M.B. Livorno was transferred to Cap Noli

10-08-1944
Bombs attack on Cap Melo , Fu.M.O. still functioning and Fu.M.B. damaged

30-08-1944
Fu.M.O. Punta Blanco ( Gerät Pelikan )
Fu.M.O. Tino ( Gerät Togo )

Regards Jos

P.S. I have also two quistions for you please

(1) In the radar "bible" from Hoffmann there should be a Mammut radar in Imperia
did you ever heard about this huge radar at that place ??

(2) The is a naval coast batterie in or near Genua called Ansoldo ( just like the factory )
do you know were this is or was ??

Regards Jos


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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#18

Post by Dragons Hunter » 19 Sep 2010, 20:00

Hi jos,
and thank you: this topic is really interesting.
I've been to Monte moro this afternoon, just to see some particulars.
Few meters near the WR, there is a costruction: it has the shape of an "U" with walls 3 meters high and 1 meters wide. Now, using the information you posted, I'm sure there was a "freya" radar in there. With your help we have found "Gemma". Ses, can you help us to identify this radar? :-)

Your questions:
radar in imperia: never heard (but i,m not an expert). However, consider one thing: for me, The radar of Imperia and the radar of Bordighera are the same. Bordighera in less than 40 km from Imperia.

Batteria Ansaldo: (not Ansoldo): There were lot of anti aircraft batteries,one for every hill around the Ansaldo factories. But I don't know a coastal Battery called "Ansaldo". Can you tell me more? for example the location. (for example, Genova Sampierdarena, Genova Sestri Ponente, Genova Pegli, Genova Voltri.......).
If you want, you can send an E-mail to "archivio storico Ansaldo"(Ansaldo Archive), they will give you an answer.

Thanks to all! :-)
DH
Last edited by Dragons Hunter on 19 Sep 2010, 23:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#19

Post by Dili » 19 Sep 2010, 21:42

No dates? it is important to get the date when they were established. Some probably just moved from one place to another.
For example the radars that came from Africa, Sicily.

http://www.atlantikwall.info/radar/italien/ri_.htm

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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#20

Post by SES » 19 Sep 2010, 23:21

Dragons Hunter wrote:Hi jos,
and thank you: this topic is really interesting.
I've been to Monte moro this afternoon, just to see some particulars.
Few meters near the WR, there is a costruction: it has the shape of an "U" with walls 3 meters high and 1 meters wide. Now, using the information you posted, I'm sure there was a "freya" radar in there. With your help we have found "Gemma". Ses, can you help us to identify this radar? :o)
Thanks to all! :o)
DH
Hi,
The company GEMA produced an early version of the Freya and the Freya LZ. In the KM GEMA was sometimes used to describe a radar no matter who the manefacturer was. A Freya and a W-R would never be placed as close together as you describe, there would be interference. My wild guess is, that initially there was an older type Seetakt in the construction you just found, and this was later replaced by the W-R. This was a not uncommon practice in Denmark.
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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#21

Post by Dili » 20 Sep 2010, 00:23

One question, what kind of organisation had German radar units. For example i see
15.(l.Flum.)/200 which appears to be part of a 200 Regiment, was this a Radar regiment?
also then H-202, H-204 which seems to be locations...

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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#22

Post by SES » 20 Sep 2010, 07:40

Hi DH,
Please see:
http://www.ww2.dk/ground/ln.html
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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#23

Post by Dragons Hunter » 20 Sep 2010, 23:29

I've seen, thanks.
But, if i'm not wrong, there are only luftwaffe regiments.
German radar in genoa were controlled by KM.....

Just for fun, a little story, about radar:
In the Diary of an Italian Officer, aggregated to a German radar Station In Genoa during the war, I've read this tale. He tells that The Royar Air Force, before bombing the city, launched small pieces of aluminium foils. With this simple expedient, the Radar was neutralized and no longer worked.
Incredible. So simple, so effective....
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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#24

Post by SES » 21 Sep 2010, 08:59

Hi DH,
That is because you asked about Ln.-Rgt. 200, which was a LW unit.
The tinfoild story is true. The foil is called Windows or Chaff.
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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#25

Post by SES » 21 Sep 2010, 13:02

and here comes the KM radar organization from the report German Seacoast Defences.
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KM radar Italy Org rez.jpg
KM radar Italy Org rez.jpg (201.02 KiB) Viewed 953 times

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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#26

Post by Dili » 21 Sep 2010, 22:42

With this simple expedient, the Radar was neutralized and no longer worked.
Worked best when cut to the frequency of radar.


What is the date of it SES?

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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#27

Post by SES » 22 Sep 2010, 06:09

Windows was first used by the RAF in July 1943. I don't have the date for the Italien incident.
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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#28

Post by Dili » 23 Sep 2010, 18:07

Sorry i mean the KM chart

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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#29

Post by SES » 23 Sep 2010, 19:24

The chart is from june - july 1945.
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Re: Question: german radars in Italy

#30

Post by jopaerya » 23 Sep 2010, 20:21

Hello

I have a report from 07-1944 that the O.Z. = Ortungs Zentrale was at Nervi ( Genua ) with the 7 Sicherungs-
division and the O.M.S. = Ortungs Melde Stelle was at La Spezia with the SeeKo Ital. Riviera .
But this could be changed later in the war ( 1945 ) ?? Here the link with the Kriegsmarine H.Q.
http://www.gyges.dk/Kriegsmarine%20Comm ... enters.htm

Regards Jos

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