7.62cm PaK 36(r)

[David W]

Did we ever establish an accurate set of figures for the number of these guns sent to North Africa during 1942?

[peeved]

Close enough for government work? Pak 36 barrel on F.K. 396 (r) carriage and vice versa; From Waffen-Revue 84.

Markus

[Manuferey]

Markus,

For me, the gun on the right is a 7,62 FK 36(r) i.e a 7,62 cm FK 296(r) with a lower shield in particular.

The gun on the left would be a 7,62 cm Pak 36 without shield.

Emmanuel

[peeved]

Hi Emmanuel,

IMO the one on the left has split laying with intact right handwheel like F.K. 296 (r) while the one on the right has the recoil shield and missing right handwheel of Pak 36.

Markus

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Emmanuel,

IMO the one on the left has split laying with intact right handwheel like F.K. 296 (r) while the one on the right has the recoil shield and missing right handwheel of Pak 36.

Markus

Hi Markus

I agree, I think the one on the right is a 7.62 cm Pak 36. It also looks like it has a semi-auto breach opening device on the cradle and the guard between the gun and the gun layer.

Could it be both are part way through their conversion. If you look on the end of the barrel of the gun on the right it looks like it has be threaded ready for its muzzle brake. Another suggestion the photo was taken to show the difference between the German ammunition used in the converted guns to that of the original Soviet cartridge.

[Manuferey]

IMO a Pak 36 without the muzzle brake was an FK36(r), unless there were two versions of the Pak 36: one with a muzzle brake and one without.

Here is a picture of a "Pak 36" without muzzle brake, similar to the one above, captured in North Africa. It features the recoil shield.

View from the rear:

Source: http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/024685A

View form the front:

Source: http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/024685

Looking at the two cartridges on peeve's picture, the longest one would mean additional propellant, thus, higher gas pressure, requiring the muzzle brake to diminish the recoil to an acceptable level. The gun on the left of peeve's picture could be a prototype of the Pak 36 (to test the muzzle brake) but mounted on the carriage of an FK 296(r).

Emmanuel

[schwarzermai]

Hello

it looks as if the designation Pak 36 was not a strightly designation - if you can see here wilh drill the barrels to Pak 36 the "old" 7.62 cm FK wer new Pak 36



Uwe

[peeved]

IMO a Pak 36 without the muzzle brake was an FK36(r), unless there were two versions of the Pak 36: one with a muzzle brake and one without.

...

Looking at the two cartridges on peeve's picture, the longest one would mean additional propellant, thus, higher gas pressure, requiring the muzzle brake to diminish the recoil to an acceptable level. The gun on the left of peeve's picture could be a prototype of the Pak 36 (to test the muzzle brake) but mounted on the carriage of an FK 296(r).

That seems like a useful hypothesis and in that case

Pak 36 barrel on F.K. 396 (r) carriage and vice versa

would not be

Close enough for government work?

but great government work: In the case of 7,62 cm FK 36 (r) [If that was the actual designation; Haven't ever encountered it in German period documents] producing a capable stopgap AT gun while waiting for the Pak 36 mass conversions to kick in; OTOH using FK 296 (r) carriages for prototype Pak 36 work would have meant that FK 36 (r) production wasn't disrupted in any way during the Pak 36 testing. Even ditching the shield would have sped the prototype process a bit.

Markus

[peeved]

it looks as if the designation Pak 36 was not a strightly designation - if you can see here wilh drill the barrels to Pak 36 the "old" 7.62 cm FK wer new Pak 36

Interesting list that; Happen to know how many of the 7,62 cm F.K. 288 (r) were converted to Pak 36 ammunition in the end? Must have been a fearsome jumper since ZiS-3 wasn't the most stable gun to start with.

Markus

[Manuferey]

In the case of 7,62 cm FK 36 (r) [If that was the actual designation; Haven't ever encountered it in German period documents] [...].
Markus

Thank you for this information, Markus. I found the reference to FK36(r) and the difference with Pak 36 in the US Catalog of Enemy Ordnance published in 1945:
http://www.lonesentry.com/ordnance/7-62 ... ssian.html
It mentions in particular "the principal difference is in the much greater chamber length of the Pak 36 (r)—28.25 inches compared with 15.20 inches, and the addition of a muzzle brake to the Pak 36 (r) [sic]."
The greater chamber length would be necessary to accommodate the longer cartridge.

Separately, the US War Department's Handbook on German Military Forces of March 1945, shows a drawing of the "7.62 cm Pak 36(r) [sic]" (on p.341) without a shield. The description of this gun mentions the FK296(r) field gun but not the FK36(r).

Emmanuel

[Yoozername]

Close enough for government work? Pak 36 barrel on F.K. 396 (r) carriage and vice versa; From Waffen-Revue 84.

Markus

The gun on the right appears the same as this specimen...

http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/7.62cm_pak_36_r.htm

That is, it has the shield modification, controls on gunner's side, and would have been rebored and fired the long 'pak 40' cased 7,62 cm Pzgr 39 rot (designated by white stripe)

The one from the website is battle damaged and is in a full recoil position as well as being demilled.

[Yoozername]

This would be the "Full Monty" conversion with muzzle brake.

[Yoozername]

According to Wiki, the Germans had a two step modification. That is, they...

Wehrmacht. In late 1941, German engineers developed a modernization program. The initial modifications that brought the guns to FK36(r) standard included:


FK 36(r), CFB Borden.
removing the top section of the shield and using the armour off-cuts to superimpose over the lower section of the shield. These were held in place using the standard Pak38 shield pintles.
re-orienting the traverse gear box and handwheel shaft linkages so as to mount the traverse handwheel on the left side of the gun next to the sight. As the new transverse rod linkage went through a gap in the recoil cradle's elevation arc, the maximum elevation angle was limited to 18 degrees.
replacing the Russian sight with a Pak 38 style anti-tank sighting block that could mount the standard ZF3x8 sighting telescope or an emergency fold out iron sight. Like the Pak 40 and Pak 97/38, the sight mount had provision for attaching an indirect sighting device - the Aushilfsrichtmittel 38 (ARM38).

Then they...

Later up-grades were designated as the Pak36(r), and:

Were Rechambered for the more powerful German Pak40 cartridge - which was nearly twice as long as the Soviet one (715 mm vs 385.3 mm) and also wider (100 mm vs 90 mm), resulting in 2.4 times the propellant load; and
Had recoil mechanism adjustments to accommodate the new recoil characteristics.

[jopaerya]

Winter white from Ebay , Regards Jos

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

7.62cm Pak 36 ???

Image from Ebay
Sturm78