16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

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jopaerya
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16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by jopaerya » 20 Jan 2011 12:50

Hello

This gun is often labbeled as a 15.5 cm gun , thanks to Guy François with his great knowledge , they are now I.D.ed
as 16 cm guns . 12 of these guns were ordered by the French Army in 1917 for the use in the "l'Artillerie Lourde à
Grande Puissance (A.L.G.P.)" . One battery of four pieces was formed in 1918 to be used in the "Régiment d'Artillerie Lourde à Tracteurs (R.A.L.T)" but after incidents the guns returned to the factory , the barrels of most of them
were safed on stock and at least 2 complete guns were saved . This picture from 1940 is taken at Saint-Pierre-Quibereon .

Regards Jos
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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by jopaerya » 20 Jan 2011 13:19

Here a other photo from Alain Chazette from this gun .

Regards Jos
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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by jopaerya » 21 Jan 2011 16:41

Hello

The guns original caliber was the naval 164.7 mm Modele 1893 , but was named 16 cm when the gun was build .

Regards Jos

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Manuferey
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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by Manuferey » 22 Jan 2011 00:22

In the background of the second picture, you can see a French "340 mm Mle 1912 à berceau" railway gun similar to the model that the Germans will install at MKB Plouharnel, not too far from St-Pierre de Quiberon.

Emmanuel

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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by jopaerya » 22 Jan 2011 09:22

Hello Emmanuel

The 16.4 cm K. (E) 454 (f) has the same max. range as the 16.4 cm Mle 1893 , do you have any information
on this gun ?? We know the other 16.4 cm railwaygun the 16.4 cm K. (E) 453 (f) near Biarritz .

Regards Jos

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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by Manuferey » 22 Jan 2011 22:31

Hi Jos,

Here is a copy of a page of a German document I copied from ebay some time ago. The 164,7 cm K(E) 454(f) is the German designation for the French 164,7 mm Mle 1893/96 "sur affût-truck" (changed to "truc" by the French in WW1 as identical to the French slang for « thing » :lol: ), a.k.a 164,7 mm TAZ Mle 1893/96 (TAZ = Tout AZimut = rotation of 360°).

If I’m not mistaken The K(E) 453(f) is the German designation for the Mle 1893. The main difference between the two barrels is the riffling : 4° angle for Mle 1893/96 and 5° angle for Mle 1893. 8-)

Per a chart from Guy François you posted here :
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=154238
the ranges and carriages for both models appear to be the same indeed.

Image

Emmanuel

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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by jopaerya » 09 Dec 2011 17:27

Hello

Here a other Ebay picture from this gun , looks that the gun is placed on a turntable .

Regards Jos
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Manuferey
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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by Manuferey » 10 Dec 2011 02:38

The muzzle looks the same as for the 155 mm Mle 1932 Schneider: compare with pictures of the 155 gun on this thread:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

And the wheels seem to have been borrowed from the 220 mm L Mle 1917 Schneider. :idea:

Emmanuel

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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by jopaerya » 10 Dec 2011 07:07

Yes , you are right , but I have this information from Guy François .
He is the connaisseur on French guns .

Regards Jos

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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by Manuferey » 11 Dec 2011 04:23

Jos,

I did not doubt the ID as a 16 cm Mle 1893 as I trust Guy François' enormous expertise in French artillery. I just wanted to point out some interesting features of this gun that can be found on other guns, in particular the similarity of the muzzle brake with the one of the 155 mm Mle 1932. Based on the fact that the picture was taken at S-Pierre-de-Quiberon testing grounds, I thought that the gun could have been used for testing the muzzle of the 155 mm Mle 1932.

From an MP from Guy François today, my assumption may be correct. Furthermore, Guy François now thinks that this gun could have been one of a few 16 cm Mle 1893 realigned in 155 mm in 1918 to become the 155 mm Mle 1893. The presence of the 155 mm Mle 1932’s muzzle brake makes it even more likely that it was 155 mm Mle 1893 gun used as a test unit. Externally, the 16 cm and 155 mm Mle 1893 showed no difference.

Here is another picture of this gun (from ebay.de). It was part of a series of pictures with some of them bearing the mention “St-Pierre Quibron [sic-Quiberon] Mai 1942” in the back.

Image

Emmanuel

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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by jopaerya » 11 Dec 2011 10:19

Thanks Emmanuel

As you stated this gun was found on a artillery testing range ,that makes the story of this gun very logical .
That makes this gun very special , a W.W. 1 oldy with new features . Stayes open the quistion if all of the
16 cm Mle 1893 guns recieved the 220 mm wheels ??

Regards Jos

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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by Manuferey » 11 Dec 2011 15:27

A Christmas gift for all of us from Guy Francois: a postal card showing one of the "16 cm Mle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider". :D Note that there is no muzzle brake.

Image

Jos, regarding the wheels, I would assume that due to the combined weight of the barrel and the carriage, using the wheels from the 220 mm Mle 1917 was the easiest and most logical solution available to Schneider design engineers: they literally did not have "to reinvent the wheel"! :idea: :lol:

Emmanuel

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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by jopaerya » 11 Dec 2011 21:50

That is a nice picture of the gun , another mystery solved 8-)

Regards Jos

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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by jopaerya » 25 Nov 2012 18:52

Here a other picture of the same gun from Ebay

Regards Jos
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Re: 16 cm modèle 1893 sur affût roulant Schneider

Post by SASH155 » 11 Mar 2013 05:11

This is one version of the "Matériel de Marine de 16cm (164,7mm) Mle. 1893/96" that I was not even aware of. The series "Les canons de la victoire" from H&C missed it entirely.

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