12 cm Granatwerfer 42

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

I found these two images on Ebay. According to photocaption they are 12 cm Granatwerfer 42.

Does anyone know how to distinguish between the original 12 cm Granatwerfer 378(r) and the 12cm Granatwerfer 42?

Any additional wartime images of the 12 cm Granatwerfer 42 german mortar will be welcome.

Regards Sturm78

[Bill 13]

Sturm
Sorry no idea on how they differ.
But for all the pictures I can find now,
No rime nor reason for how they are on page,
even one post war one .Various sources from e-bay to Schiffer Pubs & WWW..
Short Time at------------(if all went to plan)
http://www.pzpflak.ca/12/index.html
http://members.shaw.ca/scotmod/12cs2.html
http://members.shaw.ca/scotmod/12cm.html
Bill 13

[Sturm78]

Thank you very much for yor link, Bill13.

According to the images I've seen, one of the differences between the two weapons are the wheels.
The Russian mortar had solid metal wheels without holes and the German mortar had wheels with small holes.

The problem arises when the wheels have been removed. So, I am unable to differentiate them.

Regards Sturm78

[Manuferey]

Wasn't the German mortar an exact copy of the Russian weapon? If so, that would make them virtually impossible to distinguish from each other without the wheels.

Here is a picture from ebay.com of a 12 cm mortar. The "holes" in the wheels look identical to those in the wheels of the Russian 37 mm M.39 AA gun. So is it the German or the Russian version?



Emmanuel

[Arto O]

Hi Strum98,

Here some from Ian Hogg: Granadas y morteros. Printed in Spain, you know it?. I suppose you read spanish.
On the previous page there is a text: "El mortero aleman de la guerra no fue realmente aleman; fue ruso. Los sovieticos habian producido uno muy....... then the text in the photos.
I hope it helps something.

Cheers

Arto

01.jpg

02.jpg

[Sturm78]

Thank you for your images, Arto.

Indeed I can read Spanish , but I have not this book.

Regards Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Looking more closely at the pictures it seems that there are some differences in the towing hitch between the two mortars.

Here a picture of a abandoned Russian mortar to compare with Emmanuel`s image posted on 19 Mar 2011.
I think the Emmanuel`s mortar is a german 12cm Granatwerfer 42

See also http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... r#p1530863 to compare

Image from Ebay
Sturm78

[Simperator]

Hi!

Nice pic of 12 cm towed by RSO:

[Draoich]

Hi All,
Ithink that the GrW. 42 can be identified by the mounting type on the mortar yoke for the Sight attachment. It seems that the dove-tail receiver for the standard German Sight is oriented parallel to the barrel of the weapon. This is certainly true for the 8 cm GrW. 34, and photos of a German 12 cm GrW 42 shown on the Prime Portal website show the dove-tail receiver of this mortar with the same orientation i.e. parallel to the barrel of the weapon. Here is the link: http://www.primeportal.net/armory/yu...dex.php?Page=3
The Soviet PM-38-120 mortar has the dovetail receiver for the Sight oriented at a Right Angle to the barrel. This is the same orientation as the dovetail receiver for the Sight on the Soviet BM-36-82 mortar. This is the Russian standard for both of these mortars which can share the same Sight as well. The BM-37-82, which superceded the BM-36-82 mortar, introduced a dual type Sight Mount which is also evident on the Soviet PM-43-120 mortar. This Sight receiver has both the Soviet dove-tail and the indexed round socket to take both early and late war Soviet Sight types.
Unfortunately this form of identification can only be of use when the photo shows the Sight mount of the particular mortar!
Regards,
Draoich

[Laurence Strong]

There is probably a bookkeeping reason for this as well, to keep track of where the kit went, and the designation "12cm Granatwerfer 378(r)" would be for captured war stocks.

If you ever served in the military you will know how anal Supply Techs are in respects to the equiptment in their charge. .....

[Draoich]

Hallo All,
There is another and more simple way to distinguish the German 12cm GrW 42 from the Soviet 120mm mortar, this is that the German 12cm mortar traverse mechanism is turned by a handwheel (similar to that on the GrW 34 8cm mortar) while the Soviet 120mm mortar traverse mechanism is turned by a crank handle (similar to that on a Brandt Mle. 27/31 mortar)although I am not sure if this applies to all production. This difference was noted by a fellow enthusiast during a similar discussion on another forum. The handwheel for operating the traverse can be clearly seen on some photos of the German 12 cm GrW 42 shown on the Prime Portal website (http://www.primeportal.net).

The crank handle for operating the traverse can be clearly seen on some photos of the Soviet PM-38 120mm also shown on the Prime Portal website.
Regards,
Draoich

[Sturm78]

Thanks for your help, Draoich.

In any case it is a difference that is very difficult to see in most of the few wartime photographs of 12cm Granatwerfer 42.

Sturm78

[jopaerya]

Don't know if it's a original Russian or German mortar , photo is from Ebay .

Regards Jos

[Sturm78]

Hi Jopaerya,

Your mortar appears to have a crank handle for traverse mechanism. Therefore, according to information from Draoich, would be a captured 120mm PM-38 Soviet mortar.

Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Another captured 120mm PM-38 mortar: 12cm Granatwerfer 378(r)

Image from Ebay
Sturm78