Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

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Sean Claxton
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Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

Post by Sean Claxton » 19 Feb 2012 19:33

Hello there,

I'm trying to work out the (precise) location of the 7.5cm and 8.8cm guns beloging to 2./PzJägAbt 716 on 6/6/44.
I have a few questions I hope someone can help with.

There's a quote from Werner Kortenhaus (in this case in the Heimdal book on 21.PzDiv) on the subject of the move of PzJägAbt200 from Periers Ridge:

".... (the move)....had serious consequences. On the Periers heights, that is, the region to the north of Caen, 24 8.8cm guns were gone, leaving only 3 in place".

Were these three also from PzJägAbt200 but left behind when the bulk of the unit moved?
Or were they from 2./PzJägAbt716?
Or anyone else?
Or was he mistaken/mis-informed?

There are 2(???) 8.8cm guns marked on the oft-reproduced map (part of which is in this thread http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 3&start=30, so you know which map I'm referring to) as being near Bernieres-sur-Mer, and several groups of 7.5cm Pak in the vicinity.
The same map has the 14./736 (ie the anti tank company) as having it's guns deployed in WN.
General Richter's post-war account refers to the 2./PzJägAbt716 as "an emergency unit", and later states it was "beaten in it's positions close to the coast".

So, were the 8.8cm and 7.5cm guns near to Bernieres and Courseulles from 2./PzJägAbt716? The former I would guess so, the latter...????
Did 14./736 retain any guns mobile, or were they all in WN?

I hope this makes sense. Any thoughts, ideas, help, gratefully received.

Cheers,

Sean

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 19 Feb 2012 20:30

Sean, I have always believed that the 88mm Pak "owned" by 716 ID were all in the bunkers of the various WN manned by the division and not mobile guns at all.
Alan

Sean Claxton
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Re: Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

Post by Sean Claxton » 19 Feb 2012 21:06

Thanks Alan,

Does this extend to the 7.5cm Pak also?

There was (according to a local eye-witness) a Pak43/41 in the small wood just south of Bernieres sur Mer at roughly 49°19'17"N by 0°25'19"W, which accounted for three Priests from 14th Field Regt,RCA. This fits with the map (-ish).
So there was at least one in a field emplacment, but of course it didn't neccessarily "belong" to 716.ID.
But then who?
BTW, there's no doubt about the type of gun as the "eye-witness" has a photo of it :D

Cheers,

Sean

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Re: Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 19 Feb 2012 21:23

Sean, as I understand it the Pz.Jgr. Abt. had a company of Lorraine Pak 40 SP and a compnay of towed Pak40 and these two companies remained mobile with any anti-tank guns, of whatever calibre, in the WN being static.
Alan

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Re: Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

Post by jopaerya » 19 Feb 2012 21:29

Hello

Strange I can't not find any thing on the 2./716 Pz.Jäg.Abt ,

1./716 T- Bieville 10 X Marder
2./716 T - ??????????????????
3./716 T- Reviers

Regards Jos

Sean Claxton
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Re: Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

Post by Sean Claxton » 19 Feb 2012 21:37

jopaerya wrote:Hello

Strange I can't not find any thing on the 2./716 Pz.Jäg.Abt

Exactly. Richter states their guns had been put "near the coast", but where?
Had they been spread out so much it was impossible to list a location (as was possible for 1./ and 3./)?

Cheers both,

Sean

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 19 Feb 2012 22:01

I have just looked in Zetterling and he notes that none of the "towed" anti-tank guns in either the regimental a/t companies or in 2.Pz.Jgr.Abt 716 had any towing vehicles ! He also says that 2.Pz.Jgr.Abt. 716 did indeed have 2 x 88mm Pak alongside its 9 x Pak 40.

He gives the organisation of Pz.Jgr.Abt. 716 as being three companies; 1st was the SP, 2nd the "towed" and 3rd was Flak but this company wasn't present.
Last edited by Alanmccoubrey on 20 Feb 2012 13:22, edited 1 time in total.
Alan

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Manuferey
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Re: Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

Post by Manuferey » 19 Feb 2012 22:25

According to the Gliederung of 716 ID dated May 1st, 1944:
- 2./Pz.Jg.Abt 716 was not motorized.
- 14./736 and 14./726 (both AT companies of GR 736 and GR726 respectively) were not motorized either.

Separately, there were more than two 8,8 cm Pak 43/41 installed in coastal strongpoints manned by 716 ID: two 8,8 cm Pak 43/41 in the Omaha sector (held by 716 ID as 352 ID was typically placed in inland positions) and more between Port-en-Bessin and the Orne river (e.g. in Wn 37, Wn 33, Wn 29, Stp 20, ...) still in the 716 ID sector. Since 716 ID only had two 8,8 cm Pak 43/41 on May 1st, 1944, it had to have received more 8,8 Pak later in May and early June for static emplacement along the beach.

According to “Magazine 39/45 No. 224 - Panzerjaeger en Normandie”, on June 6, 1944, 2./Pz.Jg.Abt. 716 was in position around Reviers and was completely destroyed by the preparatory naval bombardment. 1./Pz.Jaeg. Abt 716 was near Biéville and 3.(Fla.)/Pz.Jg.Abt. 716 was at Anisy (with one platoon near Sallenelles).

Since Reviers is in the south west from Bernières-sur-mer, it is possible that the Pak 43/41 seen by the eye witness belonged to 2./Pz.Jg. Abt 716 and had not been destroyed by the naval bombardement. I am indeed skeptical that all 11 eleven guns of 2./Pz.Jg.Abt 716 could have been detected before D-Day, all accurately bombarded by naval fire and all completely destroyed beyond repair.

Emmanuel

jopaerya
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Re: Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

Post by jopaerya » 20 Feb 2012 19:05

Hello All

As you can see on the green arrows you can see the 9 x 7.5 cm PaK and 2 x 8.8 cm PaK
lined in a sort of second defence line right behind the Stp and W.n. at the coast .

Regards Jos
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Sean Claxton
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Re: Pak40 & Pak43/41 from 2./PzJägAbt716

Post by Sean Claxton » 20 Feb 2012 19:32

Thanks very much,all.

That's the clearest version of this map I've seen. :D


Cheers,

Sean

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