15.5 cm K. 418(f)

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jopaerya
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15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by jopaerya » 18 Sep 2012 16:37

Hello All

A complete battery of 15.5 cm K. 418(f) firing on this Ebay picture , could be a early H.K.B. ??

Regards Jos
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Manuferey
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by Manuferey » 18 Sep 2012 22:54

Hi Jos,

The landscape looks indeed like dunes and sandy ground.

It is hard to tell if the battery on the picture had only 4 guns or 6 with 2 more not visible.

The only batteries with 4 x K418(f) I can find are the batteries in Norway (but no dunes), Nordwijk (with sandy beaches isn't it?), Briere (no dunes), Jersey, Guernesey and Socoa-West.

Therefore, with 4 guns, I think that Nordwijk (MKB 7./MAA 201) would be a good candidate. :idea:

If 6 guns, I'm thinking of a battery along the Belgian coast like La Panne.

Emmanuel

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M19 MADMAL
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by M19 MADMAL » 18 Sep 2012 23:29

Manuferey wrote:The only batteries with 4 x K418(f) I can find are the batteries in Norway (but no dunes), Nordwijk (with sandy beaches isn't it?), Briere (no dunes), Jersey, Guernesey and Socoa-West.
If it helps, they are not the 4 x guns on Jersey that became Batterie Moltke as the guns sported several different types of French painted camo patterns, unlike the examples in Jos's photo.

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Malcolm :milwink:
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

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jopaerya
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by jopaerya » 19 Sep 2012 06:21

Thanks Guys

For your suggestion , the dunes look wide and low not typical Dutch .

Regards Jos

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Natter
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by Natter » 19 Sep 2012 09:32

Manuferey wrote:The landscape looks indeed like dunes and sandy ground.

The only batteries with 4 x K418(f) I can find are the batteries in Norway (but no dunes)
I have no idea what battery this is, and where the photo is taken, but just for the record: There are certainly areas with dunes like this in Norway (for instance the Stavanger-region and Lofoten up north).

Whatever this is, it doesn't seem to be a fixed battery-position though. Maybe a field-artillery battery exercise or a coastal-battery in provisoric position waiting for a more permanent location to be established?

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Manuferey
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by Manuferey » 20 Sep 2012 01:54

Natter wrote:[but just for the record: There are certainly areas with dunes like this in Norway (for instance the Stavanger-region and Lofoten up north).
Thanks, Natter. One learns every day. :D

Emmanuel

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Natter
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by Natter » 20 Sep 2012 02:40

All the "norwegian" K 418 batteries were located up north - most being evacuated southwards from Finnmark to Troms and Nordland late 1944, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to explore some options there (obviously wild guesses, but just to come up with some alternatives...).


HKB 32./971 Jusholmen [4x15,5cm K 418 (f)]
The battery's position in Lofoten was never finished before the war ended (three of the gun-pits were blasted out, but no concrete has been poured (clearly visible on aerial photo here:
http://www.1881.no/Kart/?lat=68.1021565 ... &p=&layer= ).

There are plenty of sand-dunes nearby. A possible con is the lack of visible mountains in the background (a very distinct feature of Lofoten, and frankly any battery-location in northern Norway). That could be explained with exposure of the film, fog/cloudy sky etc. though.


HKB 4./983 Tovik [4 x 15,5cm K 418(f)]
One area close to the battery's fixed location are a possibility (not directly relevant, the name of place is actually translated "sandbeach"...). Aerial photo: http://www.1881.no/Kart/?lat=68.6797182 ... &p=&layer=


HKB 12./983 Grötavär [4x15,5cm K 418 (f)]
Some of the small islands just outside the battery-position has white sand-beaches, but I don't think it's a relevant candidate.


HKB 13./983 Elgsnes [4x15,5cm K 418 (f)]
Not impossible, as there's a large sand beach close by the battery's fixed position, but there should be some buildings visible in the background, so I don't think the photo is taken there. Aerial photo: http://www.1881.no/Kart/?lat=68.9193880 ... &p=&layer=


HKB 1./773 Ristiniemi [4x15,5cm K 418(f)]
Few photos / no aerial photos available for this area, but from the photos I have seen, I think the beaches there are most pebbles and rocks?


MKB 3./511 Bjarköy [4x15,5cm K 418 (f)]
HKB 31./971 Rottenvik [4x15,5cm K 418 (f)]
HKB 32./971 Öksfjord [4x15,5cm K 418 (f)]
HKB 3./972 Falvik [4x15,5cm K 418 (f)]
MKB 3./514 Store Korsnes I [4x15,5 cm K 418 (f)]

No obvious positions - ie sand dunes etc. - for these (at least not in the vicinity of the batteries fixed locations).

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wolf-hound
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by wolf-hound » 20 Sep 2012 08:08

Natter wrote: HKB 1./773 Ristiniemi [4x15,5cm K 418(f)]
Few photos / no aerial photos available for this area, but from the photos I have seen, I think the beaches there are most pebbles and rocks?
1./773
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myt1prod
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by myt1prod » 21 Sep 2012 12:04

Hi

Indeed; this scenery looks much like the dunes at the bordercrossing between Belgium (De Panne) and France (Bray-dunes). However I know only two dunes (max. 3) in De Panne which fit this photo (relative flat plain and high dune in background). When looking at the firing direction of these canons compared to the position of the dune they would be firing towards sea (dune 1) or towards belgium (dune 2). (edit: before I wrote France, sorry)

In any case it is certain that this photo wasn't shot at the domain Cabour in De Panne/Adinkerke which was known to have 6 (at times 4) of these canons; no high dunes can be found in this area.
Also the HKB Duinhoek known to have six 155mm canons (not shure if it was the K418f) seems very unlikely; this is forestarea with only small dunes.

Just accros the border, however, many of these highrising dunes can be found in 'les dunes du Perroquet' at Bray-Dunes. These dunes are known as 'travelling dunes' so since WW2 the landscape has changed a lot.
It is known that at times of the liberation of De Panne the Germans retreated on Dunkirk to stay there up to 9 mai 45. Many sources claim that they left few artillery behind; so most possibly they took most of their canons with them whilst retreating on Dunkirk. Up to the surrender of Dunkirk the Germans held grounds as far as Bray-Dunes (and even managed to break out several times into Belgian territory)...

Noticing the fact that these canons were standing freely (no emplacements/structures) perhaps this photo was taken at time of this 'siege of Dunkirk'. Many of the AWbunkers facing the sea and 'hinterland' were of no use to fire in the direction of Belgium, were the Chech panzerbrigade was stationed to secure the area around the German festung Dunkirchen (Dunkirk); this could explain why these canons are standing freely. It is certain the domain Cabour was under firing serveral times...
A date on this photo could help.

in the background there seems to be a wellblech construction??
wellblech.jpg
an artillery excersise is also very likely of course...

Jean
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pierrot
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by pierrot » 21 Sep 2012 16:40

Hello everybody,

Manu is right, the picture has been taken on the Belgian coast. It's the HKB 3./826 in Westende (ex-Camping Cosmos) in March 1942 before the concrete emplacement have been built.
Hereunder a picture of the same serie with date and location. (source = archives Service Marc).
2DIR-0008.jpg
Jean
The presence of 15.5 cm GPF in Cabour is a myth. Many years ago, someone noticed that there were 6 emplacements built in Cabour and hastly conclude that these must be a HKB position. Many authors have just relayed this infomation in their books and websites without double-checking this information. I don't agree with this theory and I explain you my arguments:

- We know exactly the position of the HKB Duinhoek from official German maps and documents, and it's definetely not the Cabour site.
- I found 2 of the real 15.5 cm GPF emplacements of the HKB Duinhoek in the wood of the Nature Reserve (+ 1 welblech)
- The emplacements built in Cabour have a central concrete pivot of only 1.40m diametre. It's impossible to put a lafette for a 15.5cm GPF on it, you need at least a central concrete plate of 3m diametre (like we found back on other early HKB sites: HKB Duinhoek, HKB Westende, HKB Middelkerke,...
- Although Divisional batteries (like Cabour) have only 4 guns, it's not unusual to find sometimes more than 4 guns emplacements in the position (Vlisseghem, Hazegras,...).

Picture hereunder is one of the emplacement of Cabour with central concrete plate with diametre of only 1.40m.
Cabour.JPG
This is a real emplacement for 15.5cm GPF of the early HKB 3./823 (Middelkerke). You can clearly see that a central plate of 3m of diametre is needed to install the lafette. (picture = Archive Dirk Peeters)
ADP-1150.jpg

Greetings

Pierrot
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pierrot
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by pierrot » 21 Sep 2012 16:45

(Continue of the previous post)

Hereunder a wartime picture of a 15.5cm GPF gun inside the early HKB 1./823 in Mariakerke.
W-0073.jpg
Greetings

Pierrot
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myt1prod
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by myt1prod » 21 Sep 2012 16:58

Hi Pierrot

Thanks for this 'eye-opening' information. Indeed many sources claim K418(f)'s standing at Cabour, some even claim the 611 were specificly built to house the K418(f). Seeing your pictures and arguments I agree with you; totally different emplacement.
So on the domain Cabour; is it known which canons were used here and why are there six emplacements but only four 611?

other photo's of the emplacements at Cabour, see:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=192363

Thanks
Jean

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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by jopaerya » 19 Jan 2013 19:20

Two Ebay picture's with this gun and there rounds .

Regards Jos
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Stan P
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by Stan P » 23 May 2013 18:58

Three more photos of 15,5cm K418(f) from "Waffen Arsenal (Sonderband S-29) - GESCHUTZE am ATLANTIKWALL 1942-1945"
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Stan P
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Re: 15.5 cm K. 418(f)

Post by Stan P » 23 May 2013 19:01

...two more
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