632 and 648

[dirk Peeters]

Im a little bit confused by these two types
For me they are exactly the same
the only thing that can change is the height but that too is questionable .
Fot sure it s another pantzerkuppel but for other types the germans the germans use the same name wathever kuppel they are using
Anyone has a clue ?
Dirk

[Chazette]

632 and 648 are not the same Regelbau !!
632 is for 3 Schartenturm and 648 for one
the room of life is : 2,80 m x 4,90 m for 632 and 2,80 m x 5,20 m for 648
the hight on this room for 632 is 2,30 m and for 648 = 3 meter

and you have a lüfter room near the Scharten of the 632 and no room at this place in 648
and for 632 the ring in concret is bigger than 648 because the scharten is biger

[jopaerya]

Hi Dirk

I don't have a clue but the basic form could the same , but what about
the place of the beds , stovepipes and periscope holes ??

Regards Jos

[dirk Peeters]

that is very strange
We all agree that in Dieppe the dreischartenturm is of the type 632 (dreischartenturm) no? that one has no lufterroom near the turm as AC mentions...
The turm is still there ...
Living room or quarters are 5 m 90 on 2 m 81 (AC mention 2m80 on 4m90)

so if we agree that dieppe has no 632 as with the answer that AC gives what type is it then ?

Does anybody has good plans of either type ?

Dirk

[Chazette]

632 fertig

OBL Belgium = 4/4
OBL Rouen = 2/3
OBL Cherbourg = 1/1
OBL Seine Paris = 1/1

plan of archiv

difference are
diameter of base schartenturm 632 = 200 cm and for 648 = 140 cm
High HSP in french 632 = 2,30 m and for 648 = 3 meter
and the sas is bigger in 632 292 cm x 110 cm and for 648 = 230 cm x 110

[dirk Peeters]

Thats all very intresting .... but read answer please
You wrote in your books Dieppe 010 type 632
you give measurements here above that really dont fit the one in Dieppe
Lets see first before we go any further that we can identify one 632 for sure
so What about Dieppe ( 5m90 on 2m81 and no lufterraum)
Do you still call it a 632 ? if so what is wrong the measurements you give or the typologie ?
you see we got already a problem with the 632 itself and it will be the same with the 648
so lets all work togehter and send in plans of 632 please
later we can search for 648 and see what that gives OK?
we know in Danemark and norway are a few dreischartenturme
do we have good plans ?
Dirk

[Chazette]

On Dieppe the on-the-spot reality has in many R632 without Lüftraum difference between the German official plan and it is the same problem with other Regelbauten as 656 which possesses differentes forms (rooms less, double differentes rooms, as it was seen in Marseille or to Kernwerk Ijmuiden

[dirk Peeters]

here the 632 of Dieppe
Looks not at all as the plan placed above
So can we still say this is a 632 ....
here a photo

Dirk

[dirk Peeters]

by Chazette on Today, 17:13

632 and 648 are not the same Regelbau !!
632 is for 3 Schartenturm and 648 for one
the room of life is : 2,80 m x 4,90 m for 632 and 2,80 m x 5,20 m for 648
the hight on this room for 632 is 2,30 m and for 648 = 3 meter
that what you say today

a little difference on the spot you call....
that little difference is 1 meter ... and no lufterraum ...
that makes it when i follow your identification marks
this 632 is a .... 648 .....

[jopaerya]

Hello Dirk

I think we must compare the 632 drawings that were build in the field ( also Denmark and Norway )
and compare them with the Festungs Pioniers drawings , same for the 648 .

Regards Jos

[dirk Peeters]

a very wise decission Jos
completely agree with you
then afterwards we can finally establish a true 632 (with variations) and a true 648 (with variations)
hope our danish and norwegian friends place them here
dirk

[Eax-E]

Hello,

I think it's the high inside but especially the function aren't the same : the first one covers 180° and is placed face the the ennemy, the second one covers only 60°, and must be placed on the side of the ennemy.

Bye

[dirk Peeters]

the height inside must be with the height of the cupola
it has otherwise no sense
but what if the Tchech turm is used with or without fixing ring ... there are two dimensions in these turms 20 cm and 30 cm... One is fixed with a suplemantary ring of 80 cm ... Maybe that gives the height difference .. if this is right then we can find 648 with normal heights No ?
can an expert on Panzerteile like arthur Van Beveren helps us ?
But lets stay a while please on the 632 ... a little difference for 1 meter and so one looks to me a different thing

[AvB]

I think, without measuring, you can see the differences between the two bunkers.

648: High ceiling! Small gaslock, smaller crewroom, entrance to the turret in the middle directly to the turret room, no periscope

632: Bigger gaslock, bigger crewroom, different arrangement of HES and VW-filters, entrance to the turret on the side, periscope.

The 632s at Fjell, Spangsberg, Mt Robin all lack the recess because they have a 3P7 with a concrete floor and access from the bottom.

The 632 at (at least) Søndervig has the recess because it probably had a 407P9 (or possibly a 20P7).
The 'early' 632 (Not WaKoFest like Mare Mill, those are different) at the Channel Islands also had the recess.
So I think this side entrance to the turret and the presence of a periscope is very typical for a 632. Different turret is different design.

Agree with Eax-E too, they have different purposes.

[dirk Peeters]

ok then arthur
different turret different front of the bunker (for the recess)
al right by me
the 648 has also the possibility of entrance to the side
so then i come back at the beginning
we are not having good plans (german) of these bunkers
not one measured comes in the neighborhood of the german plans
what about the tchech turret instalation? without or with sockelring (height of the sockelring 80 cm )can that give a height difference
Look good at the dimensions given by AC they really dont fit any 632 (two in danemark are all alike with the ones in Dieppe
The one from Vlissingen (not a very good plan) is even bigger on the inside
when we llok on the german plans it is not at all a great bunker