Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

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Manuferey
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Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#1

Post by Manuferey » 11 Nov 2012, 16:25

During their retreat from Southern France in August 1944, the Germans destroyed two arches of the railroad bridge over the Arc River on the Aix-Marseille railroad. According to the caption of the press photo below: “men of the 343rd Engineer Regiment scouted around for a solution [to repair the bridge]. They found it in a captured German railroad gun, discovering that by dismantling the huge gun and accessories, the remaining carriage would make a perfect section for the bombed out part of the bridge. Members of the 343rd Engineer Regiment are moving this captured Nazi railroad carriage (with gun removed) into places to span the blown out section of the Pont de l’Arc bridge. “

I believe that the US engineers actually took the central platform of a Vögele turntable and not the carriage of a railroad gun itself. Based on the Eisenbahnartillerie operating in Southeastern France in August 1944, I think that the turntable could have belonged to either a 28 cm K5 from E.749 or a 38 cm K(E) Siegfried from E.698.

Image
http://www.flickr.com/photos/medicalmus ... otostream/

For reference, here are below a 28 cm K5 (1) and a 38 cm K(E) (2) on a Vögele turntable:

(1)
Image
(photo ebay.de)

(2)
Image
http://www.one35th.com/siegfried38cm/siegfried-21s.jpg


And here is the platform on a railcar as the men from the 343rd Engineer might have found it :

http://www.one35th.com/model/k5/gheuer/ ... 38cm_2.jpg

Also for reference, here is a view of the railroad bridge before WW2:

Image

And here is a bit of cultural reference with this painting of the famous French painter Paul Cézanne at the end of the 19th century, titled «Mont Sainte-Victoire et le viaduc de la vallée de l’Arc ». The railroad bridge can be seen in the background :

Image
http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/se ... /110000310

Emmanuel

jopaerya
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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#2

Post by jopaerya » 11 Nov 2012, 17:32

Hello Emmanuel

Very nice story of second life of the turntable 8-) looks to me it's the large version ,
here a photo of the small version with the jacks .http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=181854

Picture = Ebay

Regards Jos
Attachments
eisenbhn vog.jpg


Sturm78
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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#3

Post by Sturm78 » 18 Dec 2012, 17:00

Hi all,

Here, another nice image of a Vögele platform being assembled.
Was this device transport in one single load?

Image from Ebay
Sturm78
Attachments
Vögele platform being assembled.jpg

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#4

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 14 Jan 2013, 22:27

It looks there there existed predecessor of Vogele turntable in WW1:
Attachments
cc12e.jpg

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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#5

Post by JKernwerk » 18 Jan 2013, 20:05

A short film about E-geschütze with nice footage of the Vögele drehscheibe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5TrWUfMQNw
Source You tube.
Greatings Jack.

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#6

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 07 Dec 2014, 15:18

Did anyone come accros of German plan of Vögele turntable?
I know only Allies sketches of selected parts but not general drawing.
Mayby somewhere survived any parts of this device?

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Natter
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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#7

Post by Natter » 07 Dec 2014, 15:35

A recent book with possible relevant information:
"Eisenbahnartillerie - Einsatzgeschichte der deutschen Eisenbahnartillerie im Westen 1940-45" (W.Gückelhorn /D. Paul, Helios Verlag 2014. German text, 300pg. ISBN 978-3-86933-116-4 )

No german plans of turntables though, but plenty of photos.

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#8

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 07 Dec 2014, 15:44

Thank Natter for this hint :)
I've noticed some news about Rugenwalde as well. It looks I must be good till end of this year to get this book for Christmas

Vogele company exists. On the main page is typical gap for period 39-45... no signs if they has any archive...

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Natter
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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#9

Post by Natter » 07 Dec 2014, 16:40

Andrzej Ditrich wrote:It looks I must be good till end of this year to get this book for Christmas
It's a good book, focusing mainly on chronological and geographical covering of the operations of german railroad batteries, including plans that was never realized.
Andrzej Ditrich wrote:Vogele company exists. On the main page is typical gap for period 39-45... no signs if they has any archive...
And if they have, they probably (like most german firms) are not too happy with anyone digging there..?

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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#10

Post by ALVF » 08 Dec 2014, 09:49

Hello,

The Vögele Company had build the first platforms for railway artillery guns during the Great War.
At least, two models were build, one for the 24 cm SKL/40 "Theodor Karl" (it is the platform of the Andrzej's photograph), it is quite similar to the World War two platform and can be taken to pieces, introduced in service in late 1917 and 1918 in some batteries. An another model is fixed, it is used by the 28 cm SKL/40 "Bruno" railway guns batteries of belgian and northern Germany coast batteries (late 1917 and 1918).
Yours sincerely,
Guy François.

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#11

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 08 Dec 2014, 23:00

Thank Natter for recommendation of this book-I see it's worth of buying it.
Thank ALVF for additional informations related to turnable paltforms - I didn't knew that Vogele was involved in this job during WWI.

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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#12

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 27 Dec 2014, 23:13

View from above on turntable
Attachments
K-5 Drehscheibe.jpg

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Manuferey
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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#13

Post by Manuferey » 20 Sep 2015, 23:58

Manuferey wrote:During their retreat from Southern France in August 1944, the Germans destroyed two arches of the railroad bridge over the Arc River on the Aix-Marseille railroad. According to the caption of the press photo below: “men of the 343rd Engineer Regiment scouted around for a solution [to repair the bridge]. They found it in a captured German railroad gun, discovering that by dismantling the huge gun and accessories, the remaining carriage would make a perfect section for the bombed out part of the bridge. Members of the 343rd Engineer Regiment are moving this captured Nazi railroad carriage (with gun removed) into places to span the blown out section of the Pont de l’Arc bridge. “

I believe that the US engineers actually took the central platform of a Vögele turntable and not the carriage of a railroad gun itself. Based on the Eisenbahnartillerie operating in Southeastern France in August 1944, I think that the turntable could have belonged to either a 28 cm K5 from E.749 or a 38 cm K(E) Siegfried from E.698.

Image
http://www.flickr.com/photos/medicalmus ... otostream/

Emmanuel
The result once the central platform of the Vögele turntable was installed:

Image
Source: http://tothosewhoserved.org/usa/ts/usat ... ter20.html

Emmanuel

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Re: Vögele turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#14

Post by jopaerya » 05 Oct 2015, 19:13

Looks to me BaMa picture's for sale at Ebay from the Vögele turntables .

Regards Jos
Attachments
$_57 (81).JPG
$_57 (96).JPG
$_57 mm.JPG
$_57 mmm.JPG

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Manuferey
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Re:Turntables for Eisenbahnartillerie

#15

Post by Manuferey » 19 Nov 2016, 19:17

Here is a turntable for railway gun, this time from Krupp and invented towards the end of WW1 but a Krupp employee, Fritz Finckh. The patent was filed first in May 1918 in Germany then in 1920 in the United States. It looks more like a static turntable.

The text of the US patent:
https://www.google.com/patents/US1360513

An excerpt:
US1360513-0.png
Emmanuel

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