Forward slope

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
jopaerya
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Forward slope

Post by jopaerya » 10 Feb 2013 10:38

Hello All

We all know that the German "Festungspioniere" had a extensive archive of instructions and guidelines ,
but this change I have never found . My quistion who knows more examples of this way of building ??

You can see the original outerwall is only one meter instead of two meter and a extra outerwall
of two meter, here a example of a 501 , 607 and a 639 .

Drawings Dirk Peeters and Jacky Laurent

Regards Jos
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AvB
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Re: Forward slope

Post by AvB » 10 Feb 2013 11:34

Well it's still safe right? From StpGr Scheveningen to StpGr Goeree you have these 501s with an extra corridor in front but inside they're 2 meters too.
Besides that I only know the 501s in the Lorient area you've posted.

JKernwerk
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Re: Forward slope

Post by JKernwerk » 10 Feb 2013 17:07

Hi Arthur,
The 501's at Stp.Gr. Scheveningen and Voorne and the Festung HvH were mostly placed on the thin dune lines and at the Battery's Scheveningen Nord and Vineta they were connected to the covered trenches.
A bit the same as the 607's (i think at Dieppe) these were also connected by a covered trench but not built in a slope.
The 639 was built in a ridge of a hill and the corridor went thru the ridge and made easy acces for the wounded in/on the carts or cars to get near the entrances of the 639.
But as Arthur stated, in Holland they are 2 metres on all sides.
Not really agree with Arthur though about the 1 metre less thick walls, I think someone was playing here with the concrete quantity but if this is oké for the ruggedness of the construction?
The outside walls are 2 metres?
If the enemy can exploid the 1 metre less concrete it is already in the bunker.
Must say i did not see the difference in thickness when we visited the 639.
Greetings JK.

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der bunkermann
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Re: Forward slope

Post by der bunkermann » 10 Feb 2013 19:32

i have a german document mentioning about the ''501 neu'' built at scheveningen nord.
i thinks that neu meand that is has a covered entrance...
i'll see if i can find it.
gr, Tim

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TUS
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Re: Forward slope

Post by TUS » 10 Feb 2013 19:33

I seem to recall that a couple of the 607's at HKB Marka has the same covered entrance.

Brgds Tønnes

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der bunkermann
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Re: Forward slope

Post by der bunkermann » 10 Feb 2013 19:40

edit from earlyer post:

attached the document.
the 501 has now 2 entrances (november 1942)

one side of the hall was allways attached to the covert trenches, the other side was next to the battery road so they can move quickly to the fightingpositions.
the 501's at scheveningen nord have a less than 2 meter roof over the hall, probably 1 meter.
another 501 at widerstandnest 66 does have a 2 meter roof over the hall. same as the 502 in the WN.
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jopaerya
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Re: Forward slope

Post by jopaerya » 11 Feb 2013 20:14

Thanks for your photo's and replies 8-)

Regards Jos

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jbb20p7
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Re: Forward slope

Post by jbb20p7 » 11 Feb 2013 22:40

Hello,

On "Ilot St Michel", in front of island, at Lorient, a 621 was built with extra wall

Image

Image

Image


Bye :wink:
jB

dirk Peeters
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Re: Forward slope

Post by dirk Peeters » 14 Feb 2013 15:39

For the island at Lorient
They must have changed the ventilation system in the 621 ...
I was there but didn t notice at that time
Dirk

jopaerya
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Re: Forward slope

Post by jopaerya » 14 Feb 2013 17:12

Thanks J.B.

Great picture's of this bunker , I have mist your post 8O 8O 8O 8O

Regards Jos

dirk Peeters
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Re: Forward slope

Post by dirk Peeters » 14 Feb 2013 17:17

JBB do you have more pics of the 621 ?
We missed that one completely?????????????
Thanks dirk

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der bunkermann
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Re: Forward slope

Post by der bunkermann » 09 May 2013 20:49

more evidence about the 501 neu...

a german map mentions the 501's at batterie Vineta (festung Hoek van Holland) as 501 NEU
these are 501's with 2 entrances :D
the roof over the hall is 2 meters thick
see attachments
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Peter de Krom
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Re: Forward slope

Post by Peter de Krom » 10 May 2013 10:56

Tim, do the ceilings of the 501's at Scheveningen indeed have a thickness of 1 meter? Then there is a important difference to Hoek van Holland, where they have 2 meters.

All of the 501's that were build in the dunes of Hoek van Holland have the outer wall. More inland they are constructed standard or with thicker outer walls of 3 meters. Indeed the reasons seems to be the very small dunes and danger of collapsing.

Like in Katwijk (with the HKB) the 607's from the H.K.B. Monster in Hoek van Holland were also constructed with extra outer walls making a extra corridor. The 2 outer bunkers have there corridors to the east (landside), but the 4 inner bunkers got there entrance towards the sea, making a extra corridor necessary along the side of the bunker to the east. Unfortunately the B.R.V. institute only measured the first outer 607, so there are no drawings of the bigger 607's. I filled in the wall on the drawing below.
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dirk Peeters
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Re: Forward slope

Post by dirk Peeters » 05 Jan 2014 14:05

We have at least 4 501 Neu in France
Dirk

dirk Peeters
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Re: Forward slope

Post by dirk Peeters » 05 Jan 2014 14:20

7 KVA C2 Va 01 (1).jpg
We have one with an extra outer wall of 2 meters but the roof has an opening (1 m 20) for the stairs
the innerwall is of course 1 meter
an other one has a very small opening for the stairs
7 KVA C2 Va 01 (3).jpg
Yhis one has no outer wall of two meters (to be exactly 1 m 98 hahaha)this is for Arthur who critisize all our drawnings (A joke )and one has no opening for the stairs at all in the roof
Here is that one
7 KVA C2 Va 01 (2).jpg
These three versions are all in 7 KVA C2 StP Va 01
here are thus three plans of 501 Neu in France
But there are some more
but these plans are not finished
Dirk
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