Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

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dirk Peeters
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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#16

Post by dirk Peeters » 13 Mar 2013, 16:49

it is for me a dreischartenturm under construction
Could the bettung and the leisttand (observationpost not be zeebrugge StP Barbara ?)
I ll chechk this out later or can you Jos?
Dirk

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#17

Post by jopaerya » 13 Mar 2013, 17:11

Hi Dirk

I agree with you with the bettung and in the back the Leitstand is H.K.B. Barbara near Zeebrugge .
the Schartenturm looks a Nachträglicher Einbau in a 3 Schartenturmbunker .

Regards Jos


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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#18

Post by AvB » 13 Mar 2013, 17:33

It looks almost if it's been build in Baustarke A! Very nice photo of a 407P9.

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#19

Post by myt1prod » 13 Mar 2013, 17:39

Hi Dirk and Jos

although most of the photo's in this collection are clearly taken in De Panne, their are some more photos which I myself doubted because of the scenery or because I think I saw them before somewhere on the net... Indeed for the photo you both mention I was also in doubt as I used it earlier in the discussion wether a certain simalar OB was at Westende or De Panne (if I recall well). Should this be the case and this OB is in fact the one at Zeebrugge, I do wonder how these photo's got mixed up with a collection on De Panne. Never the less, a nice photo.

the 3 Schartenturmbunker, as you pointed out, I'm quite curious about... which type of bunker, where was it built, was it even built in De Panne or just another mixed up photo... it does look impressive!

Greetz
and thx for your replies

Jean

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#20

Post by jopaerya » 13 Mar 2013, 18:38

If we can presume that all picture's from the collection were taken in Belgium , then Stp.Gr. Ostende could be a option ??

Regards Jos

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#21

Post by TUS » 13 Mar 2013, 21:28

Very nice shot of the Dreischartenturm 8O 8O
Completely agree. Looks like Baustarke A. A nice 407P9 or 60P8.

Brgds Tønnes

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#22

Post by myt1prod » 14 Mar 2013, 21:13

Hi again...

I'm busy making some detailed maps on this stronghold as I did for the Stp Mackensen.
The following maps show only the Stp Von Rundstedt and a small part of the Funkstelle PONY which is more to the right. the aerial view is also lacking a small part of the Stp to the left. Later on I will be making a detailed map for the entire Funkstelle PONY which is overlapping with the Stp Von Rundstedt. To do so I'm still awaiting a high quality aerial of the area... once this is done it should provide us with an overall view of the entire area.

... but for now let's kick off with the main part of the Stp Von Rundstedt;

This first map which I've posted earlier on another topic was (most possibly) made by the local resistance and has been drawn on the back of a printed map. It shows most structures of the Stp with some specifications as function, bunkernumbers, artillerypositions, etc. ...
To make the map more readable for you on this small format I adapted it slightly, repeating what's written on the bottom part and with the use of some colours to indicate similar functions.
stp von rundstedt1.jpg
Recently I've bought a new book on the evolution of the dunes of De Panne, in this book an aerial photo showing practically the whole area west of De Panne half way-up the French border. This map is new to me, so I immediataly got to work on the part of the aerial showing the Stp Von Rundstedt.

Most of the structures indicated on the below aerial are easy to distinguise, others I could only find thanks to the above map, some which are mentioned on the above map I couldn't retrieve and the other way around.

It is known that this Stp containt some 60 structures of which approximately 50 concrete structures... so next to the structures I've already pinpointed there must be some more to relocate. The three close-up maps as idicated will follow soon.

... one thing this small overview aerial already shows and which is totally new to me is that their was laying a 'Scheinstellung' with 6 OB's just behind the Stp.

aerial from RAF reconaissanceflight RB541.16.25MAR44//A1.36" (date: 25 march 1944)
stp von rundstedt overview.jpg
to be continued

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#23

Post by SES » 14 Mar 2013, 22:18

Hi,
Great work you are doing, just in the interest of accuracy PONY was Flugmeldemess Stellung. A Funk Stellung is a simple radio station.
bregds
SES

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#24

Post by myt1prod » 20 Mar 2013, 17:06

Hi again...

(for those awaiting the aerial overviews as mentioned above; I was promised some additional information which could be helpfull with identifying the structures shown on the aerialphoto... therefore I'm awaiting this information in order to continue.)

Up to some years ago some smaller constructions could still be found all over the dunes, which where left untouched since the massive post-war clean-up of military infrastructure along the belgian coastline. One of these remaining structures I remember well was a 5cm KwK-like structure, a german road... but about 10 years ago the gouvernment - who owns, controls and 'maintain' the nature reserve - did a final clean-up so all the left behind structures were removed from the dunes. Since then it is claimed and locally assumed that nothing remains...

As I am always reluctant to actually believe that not even the smallest relict remains, I went for a walk. As large parts of what used to be the German coastal defence line are inaccesible since years the bushes grow very thick overhere and some spots are practically impossible to access... also the excesive use of barbwire fencing by the gouvernment doesn't really help... I coast me a ripped pair of trousers, shoes full of thorns and scratches all over.

This (blue line) is an overview of my walk on what turned out to be a nice sunny and fertile afternoon. As you can see my walk extended much further then the Stp von Rundstedt; the few things I found in other strongholds I will be posting in the appropriate topic.

Join me for a walk in my hometown dunes...
stp von rundstedt walk 01.jpg
the wellknown map by the service Marc (local resistance) showing the dunes west of De Panne. Following pictures were all shot at positions 'O' and 'D'
stp von rundstedt walk 01.jpg (186.45 KiB) Viewed 603 times
stp von Rundstedt walk 03.jpg
since long I have been wondering about this position 'O'... this far I haven't even the slightest information on this location, let aside a name. I do assume this was another radarlocation at De Panne when keeping in mind that local sources mention a radar standing deep in the dunes halfway in between the Stp. von Rundstedt and the St.Pieters church... this location 'O' could fit the exact spot. At the beginning of my walk I found this small structure in the forest on what seems to fit the position of position 'O'. Scattered in the area many brick and concrete rubble and a thick masonry wall crossing the walkingpath at floorlevel. From this location a road was leading to the Stp. von Rundstedt.
stp von Rundstedt walk 03.jpg (323.48 KiB) Viewed 603 times
stp von Rundstedt walk 04.jpg
In the Stp von Rundstedt area; aha!! finally something which indicates Germans were here... barbwire. Scattered over the area many pieces of entangeled barbwire can be found... but most follow a certain trajectory leading inland... Possibly this was the trajectory of the German road which connected the Stp von Rundstedt with the HKB Duinhoek. Let's follow the barbwire inland ... (could not follow in the direction of the sea due to the flooded and heavely overgrown plain).
stp von Rundstedt walk 04.jpg (182.54 KiB) Viewed 603 times
...

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#25

Post by myt1prod » 20 Mar 2013, 17:16

...
stp von Rundstedt walk 05.jpg
Could this be a dug under bunker??! It looks like a road, but it isn't! It's just the overgrowth wich gives it the look of being a road. The concrete doesn't match the concrete as found on the actual road (compare to photo below), it has more of a roof-top-concrete feel to it...
stp von Rundstedt walk 05.jpg (215.82 KiB) Viewed 603 times
stp von Rundstedt walk 06.jpg
this second photo shows that the structure extends further then the one visible straight part... on the bottom we can see the concrete surfacing again and in the background a possible chimney.
stp von Rundstedt walk 06.jpg (278.88 KiB) Viewed 603 times
stp von Rundstedt walk 07.jpg
hard to see in 2D but underneath this nice moss is hidden a square structure which fits the image of being a chimney (I didn't want to destroy the beautifull moss to perhaps look inside the chimneyshaft... perhaps some other time)
stp von Rundstedt walk 07.jpg (279.85 KiB) Viewed 603 times
...

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#26

Post by myt1prod » 20 Mar 2013, 17:24

...
stp von Rundstedt walk 08.jpg
let's continue along the barbwire trajectory... it truely turned out to be a sunny afternoon... one of the first over here... at last (today grey and cold again!)
stp von Rundstedt walk 08.jpg (185.6 KiB) Viewed 602 times
stp von Rundstedt walk 09.jpg
what's this? A heavy metal hook with a small hole at the bottom... I guess some kind of tractorhook...
stp von Rundstedt walk 09.jpg (232.09 KiB) Viewed 602 times
stp von Rundstedt walk 10.jpg
And then... what is this! Several prefab pieces, which together form an 'Inmannslocher'... and of course a bit of barbwire to give it that rustic feel... and look in the right background; piece of a german road which this Inmannslocher was protecting
stp von Rundstedt walk 10.jpg (174.62 KiB) Viewed 602 times
...

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#27

Post by myt1prod » 20 Mar 2013, 17:31

...
stp von Rundstedt walk 11.jpg
three pieces possibly entirely intact in a row... out of view to the left and scattered around the remaining destroyed pieces
stp von Rundstedt walk 11.jpg (186.23 KiB) Viewed 602 times
stp von Rundstedt walk 12.jpg
a view of the German road; very light grey brushed concrete... totally different from the piece of concrete posted earlier. Scattered around; mainly bricks, indicating their had to be at least one masonry structure next to this Inmannslocher
stp von Rundstedt walk 12.jpg (158.03 KiB) Viewed 602 times
stp von Rundstedt walk 13.jpg
before proceding... a last view of these finds
stp von Rundstedt walk 13.jpg (192.34 KiB) Viewed 602 times
...

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#28

Post by myt1prod » 20 Mar 2013, 17:47

...
stp von Rundstedt walk 14.jpg
next to the many pieces of scrapnel, unmeaningless rusted metal, concrete and masonry some more 'unique' relicts can be found... like this metal strap measuring about 30cm, part of an explode shell/mortar and proof that someone had his dinner overhere
stp von Rundstedt walk 14.jpg (275.56 KiB) Viewed 600 times
stp von Rundstedt walk 15.jpg
this shell/mortar exploded in a rather strange way... the ribbed band running around, kept these three heavy chuncks of metal together... would this be a shell/mortar which was fired on this position or perhaps one which was intended to be fired from this locationt but exploded on the spot...
stp von Rundstedt walk 15.jpg (238.5 KiB) Viewed 600 times
stp von Rundstedt walk 16.jpg
And then... the most surprising find of the day to me. On the way back I exited the dunes on the spot where a small part of the Atlantikwall is still visible, just along the waterline. Just past the point - in the direction of De Panne - where it dissapears under the dunes I felt the urge to take a small shortcut instead of proceeding along the waterline... a shortcut which I never take. And then I found this which is clearly a ringstand/tobruk!! As it is laying in line with the Atlantikwall which runs just beneath the sand on this location it is possibly a ringstand built into the wall... I hope to go and dig up the structure sometime!
stp von Rundstedt walk 16.jpg (248.31 KiB) Viewed 600 times
these are my finds this far

Greetz
Jean

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dirk Peeters
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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#29

Post by dirk Peeters » 20 Mar 2013, 18:18

Tobruk is a nice find
I ll love to see the type
In the neighborhood several 58d are found.....
If you can give a date Jean ....
Dirk

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Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)

#30

Post by myt1prod » 20 Mar 2013, 18:48

dirk Peeters wrote:Tobruk is a nice find
I ll love to see the type
In the neighborhood several 58d are found.....
If you can give a date Jean ....
Dirk
those 58d's you're talking about, you mean at the time and long gone now? ... i presume
what do you mean by 'can you give me a date'? ... for what exactly

As it is laying on public domain, I have to ask permission to dig overhere... i'll see into that

greetz
jean

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