Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
finally ... coming wednesday I'll be allowed to visit the hidden bunker... I was already told, not to get my hopes up, as the bunker has only one room..; so it can't be one of the missing larger bunkertypes for De Panne. Still, nice to discover an unknown bunker in my hometown. (I hope it has a number!! ... and is more then just a few walls..)
awaiting this visit, here you have a photocopy from a magazine which I received showing the 502 with added brick construction which stood accros the Chappel (Kerk vd paters Oblaten, kapellelaan De Panne). Notice the fake windows painted on the bunker.
awaiting this visit, here you have a photocopy from a magazine which I received showing the 502 with added brick construction which stood accros the Chappel (Kerk vd paters Oblaten, kapellelaan De Panne). Notice the fake windows painted on the bunker.
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
This afternoon I had the chance to visit this unknown bunker I told about earlier... well it is German alright, but calling it a bunker is another thing.
Some years ago the Belgian Military who still owned the bunker hidden in the cellar of the building, handed it over to the Syndic of the building... furthermore the owner couldn't give more information about it's purpose.
The 'bunker' is made entirely out of poored concrete using wooden casings, the imprints of the wood is clearly visible. The walls are only 20cm thick...
It's one large room (now used to stock the bikes of the people who live in the building) with a wide doorway with no traces of a gate/door ever being present.
One remarquable feature; on one side of the bunker several pairs of holes in the wall at groundlevel which could be used to run pipes are cables through them... so we can assume the 'bunker' had a technical function... perhaps it has anything to do with the communicationline leading over the seabed to the UK??? (at the time it was the only and first communicationcable to connect the UK with the mainland, the cable was very important to the allies when retreating to Dunkirk upon the German advance in 1940). Or perhaps this was a collector building for the many communicationlines which ran through the Stp. Von Rundstedt / PONY... perhaps it unites all the cables at this point to feed them through the underground communicationline which connects with the Wn Hierl (SK bunker); this underground communicationline was dug by the Germans according to eyewitnesses.
This construction lay accros one of the 502 of the Stp Von Rundstedt / PONY... so we can certainly add it to the constructionlist for this stronghold.
Some years ago the Belgian Military who still owned the bunker hidden in the cellar of the building, handed it over to the Syndic of the building... furthermore the owner couldn't give more information about it's purpose.
The 'bunker' is made entirely out of poored concrete using wooden casings, the imprints of the wood is clearly visible. The walls are only 20cm thick...
It's one large room (now used to stock the bikes of the people who live in the building) with a wide doorway with no traces of a gate/door ever being present.
One remarquable feature; on one side of the bunker several pairs of holes in the wall at groundlevel which could be used to run pipes are cables through them... so we can assume the 'bunker' had a technical function... perhaps it has anything to do with the communicationline leading over the seabed to the UK??? (at the time it was the only and first communicationcable to connect the UK with the mainland, the cable was very important to the allies when retreating to Dunkirk upon the German advance in 1940). Or perhaps this was a collector building for the many communicationlines which ran through the Stp. Von Rundstedt / PONY... perhaps it unites all the cables at this point to feed them through the underground communicationline which connects with the Wn Hierl (SK bunker); this underground communicationline was dug by the Germans according to eyewitnesses.
This construction lay accros one of the 502 of the Stp Von Rundstedt / PONY... so we can certainly add it to the constructionlist for this stronghold.
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
ohh yess,
What I was wondering about... what are the buildings on the last photo (marked in orange)??
I can't find any proof of them being civilian constructions... even nowadays this is still an empty lot used as car parking. This side of De Panne was only developped starting 1970 (this is 1966)... so I find it strange to see buildings here...
Could they be German??? I have no aerial before 1966 clear enough to verify if the structures were there already during the war.
(Photo's of this new found construction will follow)
(concerning the 3D model; as there were to many bicycles in the way I couldn't count the exact number of holes in the wall... but at least 5 to 6 pairs)
What I was wondering about... what are the buildings on the last photo (marked in orange)??
I can't find any proof of them being civilian constructions... even nowadays this is still an empty lot used as car parking. This side of De Panne was only developped starting 1970 (this is 1966)... so I find it strange to see buildings here...
Could they be German??? I have no aerial before 1966 clear enough to verify if the structures were there already during the war.
(Photo's of this new found construction will follow)
(concerning the 3D model; as there were to many bicycles in the way I couldn't count the exact number of holes in the wall... but at least 5 to 6 pairs)
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
Hello Jean,
This is most probably the connection room for the telephone cable to England. See link hereunder, it is written that this cable departed from there.
http://www.depannetheek.be/diverse/tele ... efonie.htm
Gr.
Pierrot
This is most probably the connection room for the telephone cable to England. See link hereunder, it is written that this cable departed from there.
http://www.depannetheek.be/diverse/tele ... efonie.htm
Gr.
Pierrot
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
According to eBay this is de Panne.
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
Does anyone know why direct after the war most of the bunkers at De Panne were destroyed by the Allied Forces ?
Regards Jos
Regards Jos
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
Hello Jos,
The English destroyed most of the bunkers between november 44 and january 45 ( so war was not yet over!)
On the report,we see they tested different kind of explosives in the bunkers.
So just demolition test or maybe on purpose because it was close from the frontline of the Festung Dunkirch?
I think more about the first option because they made the drawing of each type of bunkers, so easy afterwards to determine how much explosive needed to neutralize one specific kind of regelbau.
Gr.
Pierrot
The English destroyed most of the bunkers between november 44 and january 45 ( so war was not yet over!)
On the report,we see they tested different kind of explosives in the bunkers.
So just demolition test or maybe on purpose because it was close from the frontline of the Festung Dunkirch?
I think more about the first option because they made the drawing of each type of bunkers, so easy afterwards to determine how much explosive needed to neutralize one specific kind of regelbau.
Gr.
Pierrot
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
Oke Pierre
But why testing in La Panne and not on a other place along the coast from Normandie to Belgium .
Regards Jos
But why testing in La Panne and not on a other place along the coast from Normandie to Belgium .
Regards Jos
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
Hi Jos,
Upon the advance of the Allied troops the Festung Dunkirk (as some other large French ports) was left untouched as the allies feared to heavy losses of men and material. When liberating De Panne on 8th september 44 (by the canadians) the Germans who occupied De Panne didn't fall back to the Scheldt pocket but fell back on Dunkirk where they remained until 9/10 mai 1945(*). It is said that some bunkers have been blown up by the Germans themselfs to secure their retreat on Dunkirk. During this period (called the Siege of Dunkirk) the Germans had sereral forwarded positions at Bray Dunes from where they undertook several attemps to advance upon De Panne.
Realising this treath the Allies must have reasoned that Germans bunkers had to be blown up to render them useless and thus preventing any German attemps on returning to their positions. (after the liberation of De Panne the Canadians moved on and the Chech tankbrigade was installed to secure the Dunkirk Festung. They had to fence off several German attacks during this period and bombings from both sides took place.)
I guess De Panne was chosen out of neccessity... due to the treath the bunkers at De Panne posed it was top priority to have them destroyed; so this was an ideal opportunity too do the testing at the same time.
(*) some 11000 to 12000 Germans where able to hold their postion at Festung Dunkirk... interesting for our Dutch friends; the Festung Dunkirk kept in contact and was provided several times by means of mini-submarines which departed in first instance from Vlissingen and later on from Hoek van Holland. (at Eperlecques such a mini-submarine can be seen; these where that small that they couldn't provide in large deliveries so the soldiers which held Dunkirk were forced to cultivate even the smallest patches of land at their disposal to provide in their own food.)
Upon the advance of the Allied troops the Festung Dunkirk (as some other large French ports) was left untouched as the allies feared to heavy losses of men and material. When liberating De Panne on 8th september 44 (by the canadians) the Germans who occupied De Panne didn't fall back to the Scheldt pocket but fell back on Dunkirk where they remained until 9/10 mai 1945(*). It is said that some bunkers have been blown up by the Germans themselfs to secure their retreat on Dunkirk. During this period (called the Siege of Dunkirk) the Germans had sereral forwarded positions at Bray Dunes from where they undertook several attemps to advance upon De Panne.
Realising this treath the Allies must have reasoned that Germans bunkers had to be blown up to render them useless and thus preventing any German attemps on returning to their positions. (after the liberation of De Panne the Canadians moved on and the Chech tankbrigade was installed to secure the Dunkirk Festung. They had to fence off several German attacks during this period and bombings from both sides took place.)
I guess De Panne was chosen out of neccessity... due to the treath the bunkers at De Panne posed it was top priority to have them destroyed; so this was an ideal opportunity too do the testing at the same time.
(*) some 11000 to 12000 Germans where able to hold their postion at Festung Dunkirk... interesting for our Dutch friends; the Festung Dunkirk kept in contact and was provided several times by means of mini-submarines which departed in first instance from Vlissingen and later on from Hoek van Holland. (at Eperlecques such a mini-submarine can be seen; these where that small that they couldn't provide in large deliveries so the soldiers which held Dunkirk were forced to cultivate even the smallest patches of land at their disposal to provide in their own food.)
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
off topic question about the Siege of Dunkirk...
A wartime eyewitness told me once that during these days the Germans hauled in a large railwaycanon over the Usine des Dunes-Railway to fire it from Bray-Dunes (according to him too fire on the domain Cabour (De Panne-Adinkerke / former German Stp. Bochum)... but, as domain Cabour is only 2km further the Germans wouldn't have hauled in a railwaygun... so if the claim by this person is right they must have fired on far away targets on Belgian soil... perhaps Antwerp??)
My question... are there any records that indicate that a railwaycanon was still present around Dunkirk past early september 1944??
A wartime eyewitness told me once that during these days the Germans hauled in a large railwaycanon over the Usine des Dunes-Railway to fire it from Bray-Dunes (according to him too fire on the domain Cabour (De Panne-Adinkerke / former German Stp. Bochum)... but, as domain Cabour is only 2km further the Germans wouldn't have hauled in a railwaygun... so if the claim by this person is right they must have fired on far away targets on Belgian soil... perhaps Antwerp??)
My question... are there any records that indicate that a railwaycanon was still present around Dunkirk past early september 1944??
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
Hi ErwinZ
indeed all of these photos have been shot at De Panne. Some of these photos are widely spread, i even posted some of these earlier in this topic.
photo 1: KwK - Wn Manstein
photo 2: Radar - Stp Von Rundstedt / radar designated to PONY
photo 3: hotel Kursaal - still existing building just outside the Stp Von Rundstedt
photo 4: OB with trench leading to the ammo storage bunker - Stp Von Rundstedt (I've never seen this photo before!!)
photo 5: French canon (Beutewaffen) outside it's OB - Stp Von Rundstedt
photo 6: German kanteen building also used as cinema / theater (locally known as Victoriabunker) - Stp Von Rundstedt
photo 7: covered trench system... the bunker on top of the dune seems to be the leitstand of the Stp Von Rundstedt... if not, probably Wn. Manstein (again; this photo is new too me)
Greetz
Jean
indeed all of these photos have been shot at De Panne. Some of these photos are widely spread, i even posted some of these earlier in this topic.
photo 1: KwK - Wn Manstein
photo 2: Radar - Stp Von Rundstedt / radar designated to PONY
photo 3: hotel Kursaal - still existing building just outside the Stp Von Rundstedt
photo 4: OB with trench leading to the ammo storage bunker - Stp Von Rundstedt (I've never seen this photo before!!)
photo 5: French canon (Beutewaffen) outside it's OB - Stp Von Rundstedt
photo 6: German kanteen building also used as cinema / theater (locally known as Victoriabunker) - Stp Von Rundstedt
photo 7: covered trench system... the bunker on top of the dune seems to be the leitstand of the Stp Von Rundstedt... if not, probably Wn. Manstein (again; this photo is new too me)
Greetz
Jean
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
The pictures are parts of a set of 10 pictures published in mass in 1945 by a postcard publisher.
There are well known but often appear on auction websites.
Gr.
Pierrot
There are well known but often appear on auction websites.
Gr.
Pierrot
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
Hello Jos,
I have no clue why they chose the Stp von Rundstedt to carry on the explosive tests but I am not conviced it is really related with the Festung Dunkirch because the east part of the Stp was left intact from demolition works, same as the larger part of Stp Schlieffen. The other liberated Stp's around Dunkirk were also left intact.
Gr.
Pierrot
I have no clue why they chose the Stp von Rundstedt to carry on the explosive tests but I am not conviced it is really related with the Festung Dunkirch because the east part of the Stp was left intact from demolition works, same as the larger part of Stp Schlieffen. The other liberated Stp's around Dunkirk were also left intact.
Gr.
Pierrot
Re: Stp von Rundstedt - AOK 15 KVA A3 (De Panne)
I have most of these photo's... except the two i mentioned... so there must be another set of 10 pictures (of which these 2 originated) which I for one haven't seen before... hope the rest of them shows up.
Perhaps they chose the Bunkers at Von Rundstedt because this was a gunbattery which would present an actual danger if the Germans could take hold of this battery again (the bunkers at the southpart of this position didn't pose such a treath as they where mostly radar related or personelshelter... as for the Stp Schlieffen, here only flanking and seawards facing gunbunkers)... Just reasoning myself... there must be a reason they chose De Panne and already this early after the liberation... the efforts put in destroying these bunkers could have been more usefull elsewhere as the war was still raging... so there most be a some specific reason I guess)
Perhaps they chose the Bunkers at Von Rundstedt because this was a gunbattery which would present an actual danger if the Germans could take hold of this battery again (the bunkers at the southpart of this position didn't pose such a treath as they where mostly radar related or personelshelter... as for the Stp Schlieffen, here only flanking and seawards facing gunbunkers)... Just reasoning myself... there must be a reason they chose De Panne and already this early after the liberation... the efforts put in destroying these bunkers could have been more usefull elsewhere as the war was still raging... so there most be a some specific reason I guess)