AT obstacles

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Dragon teeth. I think Westwall

Image from EBay
Sturm78

[sebas379]

Nice view of the surroundings of that line of dragon teeth. I presume the defenders' positions were to the right of the map and maybe on the hill in the background? Would provide excellent spots for covering the water and preventing the enemy from crossing it.

[ChristopherPerrien]

The stream behind it already makes that area an effective anti tank obstacle. Adding dragon's teeth only makes the area known as having active defense.

Hence the real weakness of such extremely resource consuming fortified/obstacle lines. It "gives away" where to look for defensive forces and therefore allows to plan in advance to defeat them.

Deception is the most important factor in war. To paraphrase Sun Tzu and alot of other great generals.

Better if they had placed "czech hedge-hogs" in front of that stream.

[AvB]

But the Germans made these obstacles for kilometers on end. So hard to get around them. The stream is probably easy to tacle by armoured vehicles.

[ChristopherPerrien]

Right they did. And the fact that they could be negated by a few loads of dirt/rock and boards, was very illuminating. Farmers, even before the war, in many countries did this to "dragon's teeth lines to reach their fields, much to the irritation of the "army" , no doubt. The farmer trick was later used by many armed forces to cross dragon's teeth in the war.

There is no need to go "around" them, when going over them can be done by this method , quite quickly. The hardest part is neutralizing all defensive positions to create a " blind spot", once that is done , possibly miles of dragon's teeth are rendered "moot/useless".

As to the "stream". depends on the depth and how hard the stream bed is, on how effective it would be as an obstacle. It would have to be reconn-ed first before crossing. As a tanker it would worry me more than the teeth. Plus with a stream like that , there is a good chance the "farmland/pasture" behind it might be "saturated/soft-ground". A soft stream bed and soft ground near it , can make an area totally un-passable to tanks. I have seen 20-30 tanks stuck in a field like that. This why it is important to look hard at them little blue lines on the map, and physically recon them before you go sending tanks to maneuver/fight through such areas.

Chris

[sebas379]

Just remembered the thread, holiday and school does that to you:)

Wouldn't the obstacles be primarily used to "tunnel" an attack into "killing zones" much like WW1 barbed wire? the enemy had only a few routes through the barbed wire and machineguns would be pre-aimed at those zones. I can imagine a similar strategy with AT obstacles and anti-tank guns be very effective, especially if you conceal the guns well. The stream just adds difficulty to the attackers moving against the positions and since it's already there, why not use it in your defence. A stream can be bridged anywhere, provided you have bridging equipment on hand, but it seems to be doable. Adding more obstacles would in my mind just add time lost for the attackers. The more time they lose getting through, the more time you have to organise a counter-attack or other measures.

[sebas379]

Look what I just found

http://www.pillbox-study-group.org.uk/i ... obstacles/

[kstdk]

Hello

Nice

Regards
Kurt
kstdk

[der bunkermann]

Wow cool!

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Cointet-element, also known as Belgian Gate :

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Sturm78

[daveh]

Belgian AT obstacles

see http://www.kwlinie.be/

1) Cointet elements

T III-2-50 (2).jpg

Caption

1. Front rollers
2. Rear roller (directional)
3. Half hinge
4. Consolidation
5, 6, 7. Rings for mutual attachment
8. Tow hooks

These elements could be linked together to form a long barrier as shown below.

image032.jpeg

The great anti-tank barrier of the Gembloux gap. This picture was taken in the vicinity of Mont St.Guibert, a small town south of Wavre. Note the zigzags in the line. Army doctrine required automatic weapons to be placed in the inner angles

or to block roads by being fixed to concrete bollards.

Untitled.png

2) Rail barriers

image044.jpeg

The transition between Cointet gates and a rail field. The Cointet elements have been placed on a road linked to an off road concrete bollard by steel wire.

The rail barriers were placed in a straight line. Typically in 5 rows set 1 to 2 metres into the ground rising to varying heights up to a metre above ground.

3) Tetrahedrons

Untitled.jpg

There was a light type that weighed about 190 kg and a heavy type that almost weighed 500 kg and was filled with concrete.

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Another image (from Ebay) of Czech hedgehogs:

Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Dragon teeths from Westwall (I think):

Image from EBay
Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

More czech hedgehogs:

Image from EBay
Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

I think french AT obstacles:

Image from EBay
Sturm78