Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
Konstantin
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Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Kiev, Ukraine

Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 10 Jul 2013 23:30

Hi!

I dreamed about it for years ... And now my dreams materialize - are moving into a phase of practical implementation. We have started work yet, it is always difficult - to make the first steps ... We - are a group of enthusiastic adherents of different ages, different professions, different political views ... Вut united by common interests and hobbies - the history of our city, the history of the Second World War , the history of fortification ... Аnd most importantly - the understanding of their responsibility to society for everything that happens in this country, a desire to make people (and therefore the country) is better to leave something to future generations. It's so simple and at the same time so difficult - to do something ... I do not for myself, but for the people, for the public, for the children ... Our children understand how complicated and difficult had their grandfathers in World War II, many soldiers died in battle. And do not read about it in books, but to see, feel, this silent witness to the battle for the city Kramators'k in September 1943. Which I have written on this distinguished forum http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=152762

It all began in May 2009 when me and my brother, Andrew Abramenko, got inside this German fortification to inspect it and to measure the geometrical parameters. We were amazed at how much construction littered and covered with earth.

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German fortification, M.Thorez Street, Kramators'k, Ukraine

Unfortunately, we could not identify the purpose of building, we did not find anything similar in the layout of a typical fortifications of the German army. But the geometry and number of embrasures, there is no trace of machine-gun mount machines inside the building, let me suggest that this is a vantage point (which, as you'll see later, found its indirect confirmation). We systematically interviewed local residents, those who were children during the war (luckily we spotted) and learned a lot of interesting things:

1. This building was built under the direction of Soviet prisoners of German military engineers in 1943
2. No one has seen personally the fight itself, as the German command evicted civilians out of the city long before the assault by Soviet forces in September 1943.
3. After the retreat of the German army out of the city, inside of this building was a lot of machine-gun cartridges, they had filled the entire floor
4. From this structure still conducted with a machine gun at the attacking Soviet soldiers that height. Which advanced from the direction of the floodplain Mayachka
5. The hole through which we get inside buildings, was hacked after the war. The regular entrance is on the other side of buildings and he buried in the ground.
6. In 1956, this building was injured child. On that local people on their own land and the building was filled with different stuff.
7. In 1971 began the construction of the road (and now she passes by construction). But this fortification prevent construction work and it was decided to dismantle it. The works involved the dismantling team of construction workers. Which jackhammers tried to break reinforced concrete dome structure. When this failed, they had cut a hole in the base of plants (through which we now got inside). Then, with the help of the tractor, attempts were made to disrupt the concrete cap. But this also failed. After that, it was decided to leave this building alone.

Of course, this information is based on rumors and speculation. On this, there is no reason to consider it reliable. But what is beyond doubt is confirmed by the literature, that the strong point of the German troops in the battle for Kramatorskaya in September 1943 was an area called the "Old City". And, in particular, part of the "Mountain". It really is a hill that dominates the city. She really was strongly reinforced. There is information accurate, the location of at least four German long-gun emplacements (concrete fortifications). But local residents say that there were many more. But most of them were destroyed in the development of the territory of homeownership. To date, the surviving structures of the two - that's one more, located on private property, completely covered with soil. I wrote about it here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=155380

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German fortification, School Street, Kramators'k, Ukraine

Even then, in 2009, there was a clear idea of fortification on the street M.Thorez, to fulfill its repair and restoration. And organize on the basis of its small museum dedicated to the battle for Kramatorskaya in 1943. It was necessary to find like-minded people and get permission to perform works from the municipal authorities. But at the time no one in the town hall, this idea is not interested, it would not be representative of the city government. Below are the sketches, at the time it seemed to me that it should look that way.

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Reconstruction. German fortification, M.Thorez Street, Kramators'k, Ukraine (drawing made my wife)

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Reconstruction. German fortification, M.Thorez Street, Kramators'k, Ukraine

Continuing further ...

Best regards.
Konstantyn Abramenko

Konstantin
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Posts: 184
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Kiev, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 10 Jul 2013 23:46

Unfortunately, all this has led to the failure to initiate this project back in 2009. I began to study the history of fighting the Estonian Volunteer Battalion SS "Narva" who fought in our area in 1943.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=158037
http://kramatorsk.info/talk/index.php?topic=31535.0
I became interested in solving of another mystery - the underground passage from the building in which, during the occupation of the city by German troops, was a branch of the secret police of the III Reich. http://kramatorsk.info/talk/index.php?topic=27592.0
But the most important thing - I really became friends with colleagues from the International Association of fortification "Citadel» http://relicfinder.io.ua/
Сolleagues are exploring the creation of museums and buildings of the Kiev-based fortified area. I learned a lot from them, I am very grateful to them - I began to understand the principles and approaches to the creation of this kind of museums. They - the first in Ukraine and the first will be for ever. They were difficult but interesting way - victories and disappointments, mistakes and happy finds ...

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Museum of fortification number 179. IAF "Citadel». Kiev, Ukraine

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Museum of fortification number 186. IAF "Citadel». Kiev, Ukraine

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Museum of fortification number 186. IAF "Citadel». Kiev, Ukraine

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Museum of fortification number 180. IAF "Citadel». Kiev, Ukraine

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Museum of fortification number 204. IAF "Citadel». Kiev, Ukraine

But all of a sudden changed in 2013 - to the municipality, to the leadership of the city came to other people. Who supported our project. Who saw in this idea is not a narrow interest of a small group of enthusiasts, and the project of public importance, the required and necessary for the city. I am very grateful to the Vice-Mayor Andrew Bessonny, well-known local historian Vladimir Kotsarenko ...
The clearing of the fortification, we began June 22, 2013.

Continuing further ...

Best regards.
Konstantyn Abramenko

jopaerya
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Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by jopaerya » 11 Jul 2013 09:54

Keep up the good work , Konstantyn . When you see the first photo's and now lot of work is done .

Regards Jos

Konstantin
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Location: Kiev, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 11 Jul 2013 12:07

Hi!

Work on the excavation of the fortification, we began June 22 - on this day, 68 years ago, Germany declared war on the Soviet Union. We do not specifically work as planned, it was an accident ... It's just that each of us has his place of work, a variety of activities. And work on this subject, we can only weekend in my free time.

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Before the arrival of colleagues on the subject, Andrew and I had to start pulling all kinds of stuff. The remainder of the vagrants who once lived here

But it turned out that the situation is worse than expected - not just a building filled up with soil and a large layer of debris - glass, pieces of slate and brick ... why not work with spades - just pick up garbage hands …

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Andrew Abramenkо barely squeezes inside buildings

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Garbage ship in buckets and fed through a hole in the wall, some fragments thrown out through the loopholes. The work is not very nice - in a very dusty and hot, the air stood motionless.

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Cobblestone and brick fragments we add up separately, they may still come in handy ...

Continuing further ...

Konstantin
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Location: Kiev, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 11 Jul 2013 12:19

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You would think that all the debris is removed from the fortification. But it only seems that way ... Those who work inside (I work in and I have the pictures) have the impression that this garbage will never end ...

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Viktor Ivanov and Andrew Abramenkо still smile ... Nothing, they will soon cease to smile

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Constantine and Andrew Abramenkо

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Vladimir Kotsarenko dug hole in the wall of the building. To make it more convenient to climb up there and feed buckets with debris

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That's more convenient than the stomach to creep into the

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It's easy to immediately appreciated Andrew

Continuing further ...

Konstantin
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Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 11 Jul 2013 12:40

Given that we have started to work at 08-00 am to noon lunch was relevant. What we have organized. Everyone put on an impromptu collective table their food. All democratic.

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There is a view that many Ukrainians consume alcohol. With or without cause. It is hard to argue, but it is not so ... Our team does not drink alcohol. At least on our table only tea, coffee and mineral water.

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Site work continues ...

An interesting observation - during the day we were approached by local residents, owners of cottages and interested nature of the work. And very kindly took our plans for organizing a small museum on the basis of German fortification. Someone brought cold water, someone suggested that he leave the instrument to constantly do not carry it ... friendly, hard work, generosity - that's the basis of a Ukrainian mentality. Why are we all so miserable living?

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My fox terrier Bassey - indispensable party site. And the mascot of our project

In 18-00 we sum up the day. Almost completely cleared of construction debris. A small amount is left only in the gallery entrance. You can begin to clean the building from the ground, dig. Total for the day was scrubbed 3 tons of trash (and then weighed.) A lot or a little?

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In memory of the first day doing a photo of our team

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Continuing further ...

Best regards.
Konstantyn Abramenko

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der bunkermann
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Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by der bunkermann » 11 Jul 2013 16:09

That's hard labour for a good cause!

DaSk
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Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by DaSk » 11 Jul 2013 16:33

Amazing work! Congartulations! I hope that Yours museum will start soon.

Konstantin
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Location: Kiev, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 11 Jul 2013 17:03

Dear colleagues der bunkermann, DaSk, jopaerya, thank you very much for the appreciation of our actions. Done, in fact, very little. Major challenges still ahead ... But the main thing - do not lose heart and do the work ...

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kstdk
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Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by kstdk » 11 Jul 2013 17:21

Hi Konstantin

Impressive Work, continue please - and show us the story and the Pictures :D

It is people like you WHO does credit to the name bunkerenthusiasts (read: bunker nerds)......like me and others here :lol:

Looking forward to read and see more.

Best regards
Kurt
kstdk

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Nectar
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Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Nectar » 11 Jul 2013 21:09

Very good work! I hope to see it in real life next summer when I'll visit the Ukraine. :D

You know all those plates are asbestos? I would strongly suggest to wear some masks and proper clothing!!

Konstantin
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Posts: 184
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Location: Kiev, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 11 Jul 2013 21:22

kstdk wrote:Hi Konstantin

Impressive Work, continue please - and show us the story and the Pictures :D

It is people like you WHO does credit to the name bunkerenthusiasts (read: bunker nerds)......like me and others here :lol:

Looking forward to read and see more.

Best regards
Kurt
kstdk
Dear Kurt, thank you for such nice words to us. I hope that we will not disappoint you

Konstantin
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Posts: 184
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Kiev, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 11 Jul 2013 21:38

Nectar wrote:Very good work! I hope to see it in real life next summer when I'll visit the Ukraine. :D

You know all those plates are asbestos? I would strongly suggest to wear some masks and proper clothing!!
Dear colleague Nectar, thank you. I invite you to visit Ukraine. In addition to a very large variety of fortifications (basically, it's the Soviet fortified areas in 1928 - 1941 years of construction), you will be able to see and something else ... This is - ordinary Ukrainians. And you make sure that this is not true, as they say in the press. Thugs, bureaucrats, thieves and other bad people here any more than in any other country. They're just temporarily in power.
Thanks for the warning. Indeed, slate incorporates asbestos. My colleagues who were working inside the building were in respirators

Konstantin
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Posts: 184
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Kiev, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 12 Jul 2013 16:24

Hi!

July 24 Andrew and I arrived at the facility before all, 5-00 in the morning. Early in the morning is not so hot and more comfortable to work with. I'll be honest - after the previous works the arms and legs ached from such exercise. But after the first cubic meter of the earth all the pain gone.

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Some colleagues were concerned that during our absence bullies and bad people just flipped trash bags. Or wilt still any trouble. But everything turned out all right. "Think about the people well" - that's my motto. And rightly so.

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Our plans for today, July 24, 2013 Simple and unpretentious. During the day it is necessary to try to dig as deep as possible martial putting this vantage point.
It's very simple - take more, throw more ...

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My friend Sergei Kukochka, a retired officer and a veteran of the Air Force

And we dig, dig, dig ... Garbage bags add up, stones and bricks add up separately, pure land ravine fall asleep. It's a little slow work, but it is correct. We must lead by example and the culture of the work.

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This hole, like a magnet attracts fox terrier Bassey ...

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I relaxed a little attention - Bassey already inside, already digging paws. I pull her into the fresh air, dirty and grimy ...

Continuing further ...

Konstantin
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Location: Kiev, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 12 Jul 2013 16:45

The paper is structured as follows: one group is digging the ground inside the building, and pours it into the bucket, the other group supplies the bucket out, and the third group pours and sorts trash. Unfortunately, few people, not all were able to come ... It's sad, but not much. You should understand that participation in this work is voluntary.

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Our colleague Michael Naydenko states - jobs do not move as fast as we would like. The problem is that the land is mixed with stones, digging very difficult. And it's very stuffy in the room, the air is not moving.

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Sergei Kukochka at work

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My brother Andrew picks out a crowbar stones of clay. He even stripped - it's very hot. But he was an old soldier and has not been in such alterations ... We have with a large supply of water in cans to wash after work.

It must be said that 25 years ago, before studying at the university, I was in the army. In the USSR, the Soviet Army in the infantry. So, in those days, I dug a lot of trenches, I dug out the earth for life. But the years have passed, and now it is much more difficult - dig ... I say this with irony ...

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Started layer wet clay. The wet clay digging easier, but it's heavy. This weight immediately felt colleagues who wear buckets.

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Work, as usual, complete in 18-00. Still, you have to be objective - the day is done a lot. Thus a small number of people.

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Now you can imagine the size of the holes in the base of the building. The wall will have to be restored, and to lay the brick wall up.

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We're going to get back here next weekend, June 29. During this time, we need to agree on the removal of debris from the site, these bags. Public motor company has promised to help us in this matter. In the form of charity. Only fox terrier Bassey does not want to leave - it is like to have fun, a lot of people and a lot of unknown ...

Continuing further ...

Best regards.
Konstantyn Abramenko

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