5 cm KwK emplacement

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dirk Peeters
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#31

Post by dirk Peeters » 22 Oct 2013, 07:32

Thanks bunkerman
Here you can vieuw our latest developments of the Befra group in the field and in the archives
http://lemurdelatlantique.lebonforum.co ... ches#18739
its not 100% sur but we think its 90% proof
Later i m gonna do it here on axis
but we think we ve got the VF 9 (hypothese) and the explanation for the 1694
but sorry i m tired and maybe this evening or certainly this week i ll place it all here
Dirk

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dirk Peeters
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#32

Post by dirk Peeters » 22 Oct 2013, 14:01

here already a photo
you see clearly thet the fundament and the soccle are separated constructions
5 cm KWK 05 02  17 08 2003.jpg
5 cm KWK 05 01  17 08 2003.jpg
pictures i ve taken in 2003 et 7 KVA J 127 Rehtoville
it s gone nowadays
Its something like this that use the Ib n r 1694
The bettung has a name of it known
It s in the Vf serie s
More this evening or otherwise go and see already at the french forum
Link is above in the earlier reply
Dirk


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dirk Peeters
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#33

Post by dirk Peeters » 22 Oct 2013, 14:07

the second 5 cm Kwk is the type one entrance 4 niches
5 cm KWK 10 plan.jpg
5 cm KWK 10 04  17 08 2003.jpg
and the plan of the soccle beton fundament
5 cm KWK 05 plan.jpg
So hope to go further this evening with the explanations for the history and development of the 5 cm KwK

wimve
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5 cm KwK emplacement in use

#34

Post by wimve » 22 Oct 2013, 18:18

Just a tought that came into my mind:
let us take the two side entry 5cm stand, it has three amo storage spaces in the wall facing the enemy. This would mean that the crew had to crawl between the shield and enemy fire to get the amo out these spaces ?
Thanks,

Wim
www.petromax.nl
3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html

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dirk Peeters
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#35

Post by dirk Peeters » 22 Oct 2013, 20:19

hahaha never thought of that Wim
But i can t go further this evening
Sorry folks it will continue in two dazys
Bye
Dirk

Heim62
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#36

Post by Heim62 » 23 Oct 2013, 10:41

Hello Dirk,

the now gone offenet Bettung of Wn 153 ( KVA C - Tardinghen - Dunes du Châtelet) was a type with 8 bolts and a squared pit of +/- 50cm side.

RV
OB - Tardinghen.jpg

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kstdk
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#37

Post by kstdk » 23 Oct 2013, 11:43

Hello

Denmark - Thyborøn - local design - the Paarlafette :D

Regards
Kurt
kstdk
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der bunkermann
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#38

Post by der bunkermann » 23 Oct 2013, 17:21

Hi wim, in that case they had to rotate the gun 90 or 180 degrees.
Nood breekt wetten :D

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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#39

Post by wimve » 23 Oct 2013, 18:57

der bunkermann wrote:Hi wim, in that case they had to rotate the gun 90 or 180 degrees.
Nood breekt wetten :D
I know but it seems so unlogical to turn your protecting armor away to load your gun or at least get your amo out of storage.
Most of the german designs are well thought of.
Thanks,

Wim
www.petromax.nl
3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html

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moonraker
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#40

Post by moonraker » 23 Oct 2013, 19:04

hi
wn 11 veulette sur mer,the support 5 kwk is same rethoville ..

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der bunkermann
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#41

Post by der bunkermann » 23 Oct 2013, 20:15

wim, it's a 360 degrees emplacement, the chance of an enemy approaching directly in font of the bunker (thus making 3 niches unreachable) is not predictable 8-).

if the bettung was not placed on top of a 600 (in wich there was a ammoroom) there was to be an ammo bunker nearby.
the niches are just for a hand supply of munition...

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dirk Peeters
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#42

Post by dirk Peeters » 23 Oct 2013, 21:27

Thanks you all
Hope tomorrow to find some time
Dirk

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dirk Peeters
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#43

Post by dirk Peeters » 24 Oct 2013, 15:51

So we know that the three niches emplacement is the oldest (could be the VF 9a)
we also know that a second entrance is an option and this could entrance can be transformed in a niche
so that skips a few models
three niches and four .... same family

six and seven niches ..... same family
We know they have to determine in advance which type of soccle they are gonna use or which system they are going tu use to fix the canon

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dirk Peeters
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#44

Post by dirk Peeters » 24 Oct 2013, 15:59

Lets work a bit on the nr 1694 ....
it was found in the Nara archives in America
here we see what that gives
1694 monica.jpg
1694 monica.jpg (65.45 KiB) Viewed 919 times
1694.jpg
two times we see 1694 and 5 cm KWK
but on the same documents we found
5 cm KWK nara.jpg
here is only written 5 cm KwK so why this difference ?
Lets take a closer look at the last one
5 cm KWK Nara 667.jpg
we can hardly read something but it is 667 ...
and here nowhere is written 1694 ...
remember the same source of documents

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dirk Peeters
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Re: 5 cm KwK emplacement

#45

Post by dirk Peeters » 24 Oct 2013, 16:15

so they are planning to build here a 667 ... like the germans did everywhere in the AW
We find everywhere the VF 9 and next t it a 667 but not here in the 15 KVA B so its logical they gonna put here also 667
so here lies the secret
They arent intrested at al in what iwas there constructed but what to do for switching the gun
so in some cases they wrote simply 5 cm KwK and in other cases they wrote 5 cm KwK 1694

We went looking in the field there and found that there where the oldest type of emplacement (the three niche , two entrances)

so we went to look if we can t find anything with nrs like 169x
the VF 9 is a very old name (early 1942 ) and nrs like 169x we found wher in the last part of 1944
so there is really no connection ...
Here we found the nr 1695
1695.jpg
it s a document for constructing sockellafette SK LIc for 7,5 cm KwK
we know that a Sk LIc can be used also for a 5 cm KwK
here we can give you 1696
1696.jpg
so these nrs are connected with a technical design for fixing the faffette in wood , concrete etc
here a list of guns for the Sk LIc
doc januari 45 01.jpg
so it would have to do anything with this

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