Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection??
Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection??
What is the connection between the old names in the open emplacement of the Crisbecq Battery and Stp18 of Quinéville?
I was visiting the Crisbecq Battery in 2003 and took this photo of the second open emplacement.
You see two different groups of names. The ones with the red background and without.
List of the names.
On the artillery map of 1942 (Bernard Paich) only the names Odin and Odol are marked.
You also see on the map that between Odin and Odol Stp18 of Quinéville is situated. Perhaps this very fortified Stp was used as the first calibration point of the battery of Crisbecq??
Dirk Terriere
I was visiting the Crisbecq Battery in 2003 and took this photo of the second open emplacement.
You see two different groups of names. The ones with the red background and without.
List of the names.
On the artillery map of 1942 (Bernard Paich) only the names Odin and Odol are marked.
You also see on the map that between Odin and Odol Stp18 of Quinéville is situated. Perhaps this very fortified Stp was used as the first calibration point of the battery of Crisbecq??
Dirk Terriere
- dirk Peeters
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Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection?
aren t that indications for shooting ?
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection?
Hoi Dirk,
They are as on the artillery map shooting points. With the observation post on the hill the accuracy of shooting could be measured.
But my question is why Stp18. The angle Stp18 and straight to the see is around 45°. Perhaps is it that or it's something to do with the peilstand at the nord in Wn19?
Grtz,
Dirk Terriere
They are as on the artillery map shooting points. With the observation post on the hill the accuracy of shooting could be measured.
But my question is why Stp18. The angle Stp18 and straight to the see is around 45°. Perhaps is it that or it's something to do with the peilstand at the nord in Wn19?
Grtz,
Dirk Terriere
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection?
dirk,
WN 19 we ave one tobruk beobachtung in the "redoute" and in front ....one VF8 is equipped with a hose to the thread transmition.
so two place possible.
WN 19 we ave one tobruk beobachtung in the "redoute" and in front ....one VF8 is equipped with a hose to the thread transmition.
so two place possible.
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection?
Dirk (Terriere),
I think that the German female names at MKB Marcouf were also code names for artillery targets added later.
We can see a similar pattern at Omaha Beach. See the following map (excerpt of a map that can be found in Steve Zaloga’s latest book on Omaha Beach « The Devil’s Garden ») with the addition of « Ursula, Anna, Frieda & Gertrud » to the other code names starting with « A ».
Emmanuel
I think that the German female names at MKB Marcouf were also code names for artillery targets added later.
We can see a similar pattern at Omaha Beach. See the following map (excerpt of a map that can be found in Steve Zaloga’s latest book on Omaha Beach « The Devil’s Garden ») with the addition of « Ursula, Anna, Frieda & Gertrud » to the other code names starting with « A ».
Emmanuel
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection?
For Manu,
Thanks for the explanation.
Your map can also been found at this website : http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/
For Etienne,
I think that the To with Beob is the Peilstand Nord of the battery of Crisbecq. The other one "Peilstand South" is situated nearby S10 on Utah beach namely the Pilzer south of Stp10 Hameau Mottet.
On the Artillery map around S10 you have also German Female names : Dora , Bertha and Zinten.
Foto taken at 1944.
Dirk T.
Thanks for the explanation.
Your map can also been found at this website : http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/
For Etienne,
I think that the To with Beob is the Peilstand Nord of the battery of Crisbecq. The other one "Peilstand South" is situated nearby S10 on Utah beach namely the Pilzer south of Stp10 Hameau Mottet.
On the Artillery map around S10 you have also German Female names : Dora , Bertha and Zinten.
Foto taken at 1944.
Dirk T.
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection?
From what I have seen in Belgian and Holland on the same type of maps only there names
were replaced by numbers but the use in the same you could coordinated artillery-fire on
one place with several battery's .
Regards Jos
were replaced by numbers but the use in the same you could coordinated artillery-fire on
one place with several battery's .
Regards Jos
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection?
Thank you, Dirk. It is actually a different map but it shows indeed the same code names.dterrier wrote:For Manu,
Thanks for the explanation.
Your map can also been found at this website : http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/
Dirk T.
Dirk, the map is from 1943. There are several clues that point to that. For instance on the excerpt that you show, HKAA 755's Stab arrived in the Cherbourg's peninsula in the spring of 1943 and sAA 456 was created in January 1943.dterrier wrote:On the artillery map of 1942 (Bernard Paich)
But back to the observation posts on the map. As written on the map, these OPs are linked to 3./HKAA 832, an HKB, which became 3./HKAR 1261, in late December 1943. Dirk T. also discussed similar observation posts for another long range HKB, E.685, future 3./HKAR 1262, in the Cherbourg area.
Since it was the role of the Heer coastal batteries to fire on the enemy on the beach, while the KM coastal batteries would concentrate at naval targets, I would assume that the observation posts of 3./832 remained attached to 3./1261 when the Heer battery was moved to its new position at Fontenay and thus, were not taken over by MKB Marcouf and the Kriegsmarine.
Emmanuel
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection?
OK Manu,
The map is from 07/07/1943.
Grtz,
Dirk
The map is from 07/07/1943.
Grtz,
Dirk
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection?
hi dirk
it is very logical indicator the numbre of battery st marcourf.see or are set up on the VF8 utha is the first beobachtung build in bèton.always in the right place.
best regards
it is very logical indicator the numbre of battery st marcourf.see or are set up on the VF8 utha is the first beobachtung build in bèton.always in the right place.
best regards
- dirk Peeters
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- Joined: 24 May 2011, 21:18
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Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection?
On the Bttr Grisbecque itself is also an observation Tobruk
a special Bf 58c with telephone niche and the rare entrance of 60 cm ... could be a secondary observationpost
a special Bf 58c with telephone niche and the rare entrance of 60 cm ... could be a secondary observationpost
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection??
The paper that you get from the museum when doing a tour says:
"Tubruk used for observation. From here they contacted with signals to the coastbattery with was situated on a hill in Quineville."
"Tubruk used for observation. From here they contacted with signals to the coastbattery with was situated on a hill in Quineville."
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection??
Hi
A small question, in regard, more or less, in the title "...Stp18 Quinéville"
Sometimes it's mention as a Stützpunkt, sometimes as a Widerstandsnest (ex above artillery map 1942 )
Is it a Wn or did it maybe changed to a Stp ?
Can somebody enlighten me...thx in advance
A small question, in regard, more or less, in the title "...Stp18 Quinéville"
Sometimes it's mention as a Stützpunkt, sometimes as a Widerstandsnest (ex above artillery map 1942 )
Is it a Wn or did it maybe changed to a Stp ?
Can somebody enlighten me...thx in advance
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection??
In the Netherlands some Wn's grew out as Stp's but it could also be that there was a misunderstanding in the norm's that were used to name complex as a Stp or Wn.
JK
JK
Re: Battery of Crisbecq and Stp18 of Quinéville. Connection??
It's also possible that "Stp" was incorrectly taken over by some websites...
BTW has your name jKERNWERK (Vlissingen) something to do with "stichting bunkerbehoud" ?
BTW has your name jKERNWERK (Vlissingen) something to do with "stichting bunkerbehoud" ?